Now is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It won’t last forever. We must take it or leave it. – C.S. Lewis
Seriously. At what point do you people give up. You did everything you can do to prevent this sale and still we are preceeding forward. Will you stand in front of the wrecking ball to offer your life for this church? You have made your point. Time to think about working with us as opposed to against us.
Yes we will stand in front of the wrecking ball if you were at the meeting you would know someone mentioned that!
Obviously we haven't made our point yet because like you said you are preceeding forward. Until you listen we will not stop.
Will you also hold your breath and pout until you get your way?
That is not a bad idea, will it work?
Leave. Just leave. There are local parishes where you will be respected, valued and spiritually fed. Why stick around here and continue to be ridiculed? This administrator and his staff have created an environment that is isolated and galvanized. You do not matter. Again, you do not matter.
Now that is a little uncalled for and disrespectful i and hundreds of others do matter and we will not leave! Also, this thread is titled "What can we do?" so please either gives us ideas on how we can save our church or just go back to whatever it is you do.
Run away, that's a poor suggestion. How does running away from the parish you claim you want to save solve the problem? Dean will not be here forever. He may be gone sooner than later. We won't be able to resurrect Saint Vincent's but we can resurrect the Catholic spirit that was present before he was assigned. From the beginning of the Church there have been poor leaders, he is one of many but don't let him and the decisions made during his tenure determine the way you practice your faith.
10:23 I don't mean to be negative or to burst your bubble but this is a done deal. I hate to see Saint Vincent's demolished, but it will happen because in the eyes of Rochester, Dean wants it, the parish council wants it, the finance council wants it, the facilites committee wants it, the staff wants it and, according to Dean, most parishioners do. So, if you're sitting up at Buffalo Road looking over the finances, you want it too.
10:23- I didn't mean to offend you but I don't think we who oppose leadership matter. If you have had a different experience, please share.
to 10:39 from 10:23- We may not matter to them you're right but we do matter to GOD and i will help this cause and not runaway because i truly believe that God would not want this to happen. PLEASE DO NOT GIVE UP THIS IS NOT OVER!!!
Catholics in Corning need to face the facts, if the Diocese gives you a cruddy deal re: a pastor or pastoral admin. then your parish suffers. Corning got a few subpar leaders & now many traditional catholics attend mass in Campbell or elsewhere. They trashed St. Pats and St. Vinnies I fear is next due to your breaking the diocese's 11th commandement "thou shalt be viable". Recall the diocese pushed the all the Parish Planning & Synod BS years ago. We in H'port @ St. Gabes played their game and followed the rules. Our parish is now mere shadow of itself cuz Sister Anne is gone and it will be closed in due time as attendance has cratered since this forced St. Mary's merger. No doubt based on some mediocre Kodak or Xerox castoff's opinion who is now employed by the Diocese, making a "living wage". The solution is real Spiritual leaders (Priests), these pastoral administrators are not qualified to run anything, let alone guide us spiritually. I wish the people of St. Vinnies lots of luck and best wishes, and perhaps the ghost of Father Guilfoyle will haunt your poor excuse of an administrator this Feast of All Saints. St. Vinnies Class of 69
If you think God cares how many buildings All Saints Parish has or which church you attend or whether you go to a Catholic, Methodist, Episcopal, Lutheran or non-denominational church, or whether you attend any church at all, you have a very strange concept of who God is and what His/Her/Its priorities are.
To Anonymous 9:29- we cannot give up because we simply were not given the chance to do anything. We were "heard" by deaf ears. This is NOT a done deal. If you were at Mass or read the letter in the bulletin you will know that there is a 2-3 years time frame where anything (and miracles) could happen. And No I will not stand in front of the wrecking ball...I WILL BE ON MY KNEES in front of the wrecking ball.To Anonymous 10:10- Sorry, not leaving. I remember my confirmation over 17 years ago, when the Bishop told me that I was a soldier for Jesus and I must do, what in my heart, I know is His will. If it comes to the worse, at least I can hold my head up high knowing that I did it for the right thing. Let God be my judge.To Anonymous 11:14- Please pray for us as I will pray for you. I am sorry to hear about the current state of your church. It seems there is an epidemic of disconnect between Parishes administration and the Parishioners.To Anonymous 11:29- You are sort of right. God does not care for the buildings. He cares about the people. The Church is the People. However, as the Church we need a place of gathering, of communion, of worship. Centering everything at one Church may seem like a good idea to some. But when it is done at the expense of heSpiritual needs of the faithful, we have a different ball game. God bless.Yours in Crist,Emily
11:29- I'm quite positive that God cares whether we go to a Catholic, Methodist, Episcopal, Lutheran or non-denominational church. He founded ONE Church, an historical fact, and this Church is the Roman Catholic Church. This Church possesses the fullness of the truth. So, it must matter to Him. And it should matter to you.
12:01 You may be able to stall the demolition of Saint Vincent's with various legalities but don't you think it will still be closed ASAP? It will sit there, unoccupied and unattended and rot away, following in the steps of Saint Patricks.
Can we please not argue about church/denominational issues? There is enough going on around here as it is! There are plenty of blogs out in cyberspace that would welcome that discussion. Just not this one.
Love all the suggestions!!! So helpful. Thank You keep them coming!!
So, I think some of these suggestions are not helpful. If you believe you have something of value to offer, feel free to email us at email@example.com.
Gretchen,I have tried to contact the committee through the email address and it keeps coming back...is there another way to do this....Thanks
I really wish everyone had seen the financials that SOP showed us yesterday. Something is very wrong, and it's not about a lack of money, but rather missing data, flawed assumptions, and the issue of "fake numbers." No matter what happens, this needs to be straightened out. Everyone deserves to know exactly how their money is being spent and why.
I agree think outside the box, buy the church and run your own parish. The parish(St. Vinnies, not All Saints) built the church in the 50's and came back from the flood in the 70's, so why not buy the building. In fact All Saints by rights should actually give you the building for a $1 because it is the parishoners buildings. They paid to built and rebuild already. $350,000 is a small price in any event I am sure you could raise the cash amongst the parishoners.
Not sure why you are having a problem. Perhaps you could resend it to firstname.lastname@example.org from another computer, or have a friend do it.
Having parishioners buy the property is not helpful, for a number of reasons. It would cease to be a Catholic church recognized by our bishop, for one thing.
Its not about the money...the parish administration has used the "uncertainty" of gifts/bequests as their way to paint the picture the parish is "losing" big money annually and justify their facility plan. In fact the parish receives an average of $290k in bequests annually and has only lost an average of $2,400 over the last 4 years. This means the administration has already decided to close facilities it is a done deal, preordained, so stand up and fight. The parish is a dictatorship as is the diocese. You cannot vote these people out. Raise some cash, hire some legal help, contact your local government, fight the zoning, question the validity of the deeds, etc. Its time to play hardball.
Sorry Gretchen you should check out your parish history. There are many ways to skin a cat. Fr. Guilfoyle stood up to the bishop to found IHM. The bishop did not want a church in Painted Post. Father Guilfoyle made IMH an annex of St. Vincents, even donated some cash and they built IHM anyway in opposition to the bishop. (kind of ironic All Saints admin had it mouthballed) So who is to say you could not buy the buildings as an annex of St. Joes in Campbell or an Elmira church.Or we can continue w/the rosary.
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I don't think anyone suggested the numbers in the Facilities Plan were faked. They were ballpark estimates that were not based on any actual bids. And they were several years old at that. And we will be posting the presentation at some point at SavingOurParish.com.Regarding Fr. Guilfoyle and IHM, you are right, I don't know that history. Perhaps others here do.
On the parish facility power point presentation slide 13 they represent bequests will be zero in 2010. On the other hand the parish 2009-2010 budget they planned for bequests to be $90k. Its on the All Saints website check it out.The actual average bequests received for the last 4 fiscal years was $290k. Faked I do not know, but certainly inconsistent and(or) incompetently prepared. Therefore one should question the veracity of their other projections.
Gretchen is right. It is not realistic to purchase Saint Vincents. Also, please do not plan any activities to distract from the All Saints Academy celebration on Friday. As much as we all would like to have 5 minutes with the Bishop, this would not be the time nor the place. The kids and all those who work so hard to provide a Catholic education in Corning deserve to have a special,happy and uninterupted day. Write to the Bishop. Beg for this parish. Father Joe Hart did meet with some parishioners, request another meeting with him. By all means, keep the pressure up but not at the expense of our innocent All Saints Academy children. They have their own battles to be fought.
According to the history of the parish written by Fr.Robert McNamara, Fr. Guilfoyle was told by Bishop Kearney to contribute $40,000 toward the establishment of IHM. He wrote out a check and gave it to the bishop. I remember Fr. G. from the pulpit telling the parishioners this and said something like this is the way it is and so be it. We were saving to build our own church but gave that to IHM. We all lived by Faith back then not by dollar signs because the church came to be and with the proper leadership could continue to exist.
Could not make the meeting. Would like to see a summary on this website of what was presented besides the video. Would like to see your financial numbers and ideas on how you are going to increase revenue. What are the donations to the SOP exactly going to? Since it has been stated that some of the truths were kept from us, I would like to know exact numbers and where my donation , if made, would go to.
The summary will go online when we get a spare moment. Our financial numbers are the same as the parish leadership's. We used their own financials to try and make sense of the numbers. We had an investment banking firm and accountants look at them for us. They give a different picture than what is presented by leadership.No one here is asking for donations. People have indicated a desire to donate. An account at M&T Bank was opened some weeks ago to help pay for the yard signs, which were a considerable expense to one individual. All other expenses have been out of pocket to date.Hope that helps.
When are you going to publish your numbers?
When we get to it. We all work, we all have busy lives. And they are not our numbers. They are the parish's numbers.