Friday, November 26, 2010

The Price is.....right?

What do you suppose was the cost to build St. Vincent and its rectory and furnish it fully back in 1955?

Published in the July 1, 1955 Catholic Courier, the price was $385,000. In 1955.

And in 2010, our parish leadership is willing to sell not only the church and rectory, but the parking lot, the convent, and the school for $350,000.

67 comments:

  1. What a throw-away parish community we have become. No respect for the hard work of our parents and grandparents.

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  2. It's a Black Friday half-price sale! Buy one, get all four!

    Carol

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  3. No it's a going out of business sale.

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  4. How sad. Such a beautiful building that used to be filled with such vibrant ministries. Can we begin a novena to two of our beloved Priests-Father Brennan and Father Davis? I am certain that they will go before the throne of God to beg for our cause.

    Chris

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  5. Poor comparison. The church is worth much less if it is not sold with the intent of remaining a church. Providence House is willing to pay $350,000 for a building they will demolish. The church itself has absolutely no value to them and we still get $350,000. Think about it long enough and you may arrive at the same conclusion that I have- the Church itself has no value to those who have negotiated the sale of the property. No value. Nothing. A means to make a few bucks. Makes me want to vomit. Literally.

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  6. I am sure there are plenty of home owners on the facilities and finance committees. I wonder how many of those people who met in seclusion for three years to develop this so called "one parish vision" would be willing to sell their property for less than what they paid for it?
    Not to mention that none of them have 55 years worth of "sweat equity" in their property like St. Vincents has. Maybe all of you on the councils and committees form a line, and I can find buyers for your property too if your as willing to give your homes away as you are willing to give the church away!

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  7. How can anyone actually believe that this church is just a building with no apparent value. The person that does is only fooling themselves. I am not from your area but every Church has a value not only to this generation but for those to follow. You mention on your blog other Catholic churches in your city. The members of those churches better wake up and fast! Or do they think that 'their' church is 'safe'? Better join in folks because I am from your diocese and they are not just closing one church at a time. The entire city needs to ban together otherwise its just a matter of time.........

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  8. Well put..wouldn't it be great if this whole plan just went away? The handwriting is on the wall folks. If it's evident to an outsider, it should be to all us at All Saints, not just to those trying to save a part of our local Catholic history. There is nothing the matter with saying "We were wrong..let's work this out".

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  9. Back to parish reps. selling their homes below cost. THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!!! People lose their jobs, people get sick, people make bad investments, yada, yada, yada... Sometimes you cut your losses just to get out of a mortgage that you can't afford. You people don't seem to get it, we can't afford to keep this church open. If we could, we would. We can't, so we won't.

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  10. And we all know that a lie is a lie is a lie. It doesn't become the truth just because it is repeated over and over.

    We can afford our church. And when the sorry history of this mess is written those who welcomed the sale will have to hang their heads in shame.

    And those who are behind the scheme will have much to answer for. You can't wash away such a stain.

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  11. If We could, We would. We can't, so We won't.
    Does anyone see a pattern here? Obviously one sided We dare say.

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  12. How many know that St. Anthony's Church complex was sold for $800,000? Elmira college and the church officials negotiated so to speak.I understand the offer was beyond what was expected so was accepted. Makes me wonder whatever made us agree to a "MIDDLE PRICE" between ASP and PH appraisals for the property before we even know what PH is willing to offer once there is an appraisal, or even worse what made us abandon a planning process to save two churches just because we got a paltry initial offer from PH? They are the buyers. Are we THAT eager to ruin a community that we will take any monetary offer regardess of value of product? Yes, I know the history of selling ST. Pat's but still ST.V. is not ST. Pat's and I have yet to hear what was learned from letting St. Pat's go under the wrecking ball for a mere %500,000. Of course we will never know nor will the parishioners of that lovely Church/home know what kind of negotiations were done since ASP agreed to secrecy, and as Deacon tells it, a near secret threat of no sale if any of the negotiations were revealed before the final signing. WOW, baffles me why we would agree to such,other than desire to get rid of something at any cost. Terrible in so many ways I won't begin to count here. One cn only hope and pray this does not happen to SV Church community.

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  13. What is this We can't and we Won't that 2:49 wrote. It makes it look like everything is settled. Is it all a secret again or is a plan to sell already in process. Think its only fair that SOP knows what's going on.

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  14. I think all parishioners need to know, not just those who come here.

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  15. The plan is in place. They were flying over St. Vinnie's the other day doing an air survey. They are going full steam ahead. Folks what you are seeing is the Faith being destroyed in CPP. The destruction of the churches is their crowning accomplishment. They may build some monster of a church someday on the outskirts of town and call it All Saints Church but it won't be Catholic and it won't be full.

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  16. But it will be Dean's legacy and, really, isn't this what it's all about?

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  17. Yeah, his and the DOR. And it is not a legacy I would want to have.

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  18. To get back to the insurance issue why the out of sight premiums? Are they paying for the priest scandals? Not a word from the deacon. Seomthing smells bad.

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  19. Dean has his staff and committee members to hide behind. It's a true sign of a coward not to meet without them present. Remember, he has no ties to the community and doesn't care about the rich history of the parish. When's the last time you've seen him around town, at the store, at a sporting event or in any way supporting this community? What a sad mess he has come here to create. Shame on him.

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  20. Calling something a lie often enough doesn't make it so.

    Of course you aren't going to get full market value for the property. What else could it be used for in its current condition? It's tough to re use churches for anything else other than churches.

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  21. Try paying the bills with "the church's rich history."
    Many homes that are being foreclosed upon have a rich history too. Unfortunately that doesn't feed the bulldog.

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  22. If you think the sale of this building is going to "save" the parish financially, you'd better think again. The money nightmare is only beginning. What's your next idea for solvency? I think we'd all be interested.

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  23. Become Protestants?

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  24. Well, that's his flare. If anything thinks it's a joke, do your homework and you'll find out.

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  25. 7:17 You speak of feeding the bulldog when parishioners are starving to death- starving for a leader who will feed them the truth, live the truth and be the truth.

    Tired of the lies

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  26. We can't afford to keep paying for what, the 11 buildings this parish has? On a "one-parish" income? Its nuts to try and keep paying for all these buildings. We're one parish, folks, and as such we should only use the amount of buildings we need. Period. It is the only financially responsible thing to to.

    Now there will come responses saying that we need St. Vincents and that people will leave if the building is closed. My response would be if they choose to go to the ABC parishes because they live closer to them than St. Mary's, well good for them. If they are choosing to go to somewhere else because of the stubbornness to not go to St. Mary's just to spite the parish, well, I think that is a sad un-Christian response to our fellow Catholics. Defend all you want, but I can't see Jesus being proud of that.

    And if people stop going to church at all, well, that's between them and God. God looks at the heart and not the building you worship in.

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  27. I am choosing to go someplace else because I'm tired of being treated with such disrespect by the leadership at All Saints.

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  28. Anonymous 12:30 a.m. -- stop the lie that we can't afford our churches. It is a damned lie that leadership has told to justify destroying our faith community. Go ahead and close down IHM and SV. Think you are broke now? You 'folks' will be wishing you had never heard of Providence House, let alone gotten an so called unsolicited offer from them. What is unchristian is the leadership who are willing to sell their brothers and sisters down the river for a lousy few hundred thousand. Sickening.

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  29. Just read the article by Cory Smith. I think it needs to be addressed. He makes it sound as if things are going great. They are not. Only 40 kids in the confirmation class, my daughter is one. The kids do not like the new program and neither do the parents. Basically, we sit for an hour and sometimes longer while he "preaches" to us. One night he gave a "quiz" to the adults. If he was trying to humiliate us, I don't think it worked. When my son was confirmed, there were almost 100 kids in his class and they stayed involved all through high school. Where are the high school kids now? With exception of a handful, they are at the FBI meetings. I have heard that well over 100 kids come to their meetings and they are looking for a bigger place to meet. So, please, I am tired of the parish reps. acting like things are going great and everybody is on board. The people that matter the most are not. I have to force my daughter to go every week and after she is confirmed, she won't come back and her friends aren't either.

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  30. What bothers me is that his article said the kids weren't "really listened" to. That is true if you apply it to the current leadership.

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  31. I have never commented on this blog, but I cannot let this one pass. Cory's article is misleading at times. Two and I repeat, two, retreats, one for the junior high and one for the senior high, have been canceled this fall. The excuse was not fully revealed for the first (Not enough kids signed up) and for the high school retreat, it was stated that too many kids were involved in post season play. Hello! There will always be conflicts with sports but you carry on with what you have and with who you have. The real problem is that there weren't enough kids to carry on without the 1 or 2 who could have had a game but didn't. I agree with whoever above commented on how the truth is not fully revealed, just attempts to give the impression that we parents and the kids are all happily moving on, when most of us know that is not the case. I will go back to what so many have stated- poor leadership.

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  32. 7:45 I have a real problem with your attitude- the "get it and go" mentality for the Sacrament of Confirmation is one I would be ashamed of. What kind of an example are you setting for your daughter?

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  33. 9:45 I am teaching my daughter that the Church is full of imperfect people, imperfect programs but perfect sacraments. Do you think that is an OK message?

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  34. 11:36 As long as ALL people are included in the imperfect people and not just the All Saints Parish staff. Sorry if the current program doesn't meet your needs- have you offered your help to bring it up to par? We would all be curious to see what insight and wisdom you could add to the program. It's easy to sit back and complain and much harder to get involved to provide solutions.

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  35. Amen, 12:51 PM. I don't hear much specifics on what they would do to change church programs, other than have their personal favorite staff member run it. Seeing as how thats not going to happen, are you complainers go to try and help build up our church rather than CONSTANTLY tear it down at every turn?

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  36. To the people stating what Jesus would or would not be proud of, you're treading on slippery ground. We could go on all day. Would Jesus be proud of secret committees? Would he be proud of the eye-rollers and those that mock others' ideas? Would he be proud when people refuse to seek out their lost brothers and sisters?

    I think that Jesus would be pleased if/when people discussed the future of his parish openly and kindly. And that's as far as I'm willing to go.

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  37. 7:07 AM - If you have got some apparent knowledge of church finances that is it not known to us (like how we can afford to pay for 11 buildings when we are faced with huge budget deficits), please share.

    Also, when you say things like "It is a damned lie that leadership has told to justify destroying our faith community" it is so beyond ridiculous how can anyone take your argument seriously? They have no motivation to destroy the place they work for. Wake up and join reality.

    Remember we the parishioners are the community. We decide if we want to continue to stay together. We can just choose to move forward as one community (which we allegedly already are) or continue to be like those who complain about youth ministry and drag our feet and whine for years on end (while not volunteering or contributing financially to our parish, furthering program attendance issues and financial problems and forcing cuts, which then make more people angry, thus prolonging a vicious cycle) making life for everyone miserable. When are we going to grow up?

    I don't see anybody ever say "I'm involved in [X] and we have [Y] problems. What can we do to make it better and help leader [Z]? I have this idea..." Never. We sit in the pew, put 10 bucks in the collection basket, then complain about the parish needing to sell off buildings. We complain about how nobody attends a church program, and at the same time we don't attend or send our children there. What do you want our leaders to do?? Be specific. Maybe WE are part of the problem!! If you don't have anything helpful to say, don't bother saying anything at all.

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  38. I don't know anything about the Confirmation program this year but I can comment on the program from the previous years. All the program consisted of was going to a parent meeting and getting a book. The candidate and their sponsor had to work on the lessons. They could all be done at one session and maybe took and hour and half to complete. Not much of a program, but of course people were happy because they did not have to put much time into it, get the sacrament so the kids can "graduate" from religious ed. That seems to be the pattern in Catholic families!

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  39. Indeed. I know a few families that after their child received first communion they stopped attending mass because they just didn't feel like going on Sundays. I also know a few families that don't go to church period when there isn't Sunday School (like during summer). I would also imagine if you are attending mass you probably aren't contributing very much financially, so it shouldn't be a shock when you return after a church hiatus and find that the church is closing. But this is just speculation of course.

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  40. 1:45 As a confirmation sponsor 3 years ago, I spent many hours with my candidate. We went to mass together, went to the monastery together and I shared alot of faith experiences. We went through the book in great detail.I think Alene had a great program. We weren't required to sit through the many meetings and could set up times to meet while working around a busy teen's schedule. I don't know the details of the new program and maybe it's a good one but the old way was good in my opinion. New ideas aren't always better than the old. I think the kids will be the best judges. If most return next year to continue their faith formation, it was a good program. If not, time to reevaluate.

    John

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  41. 1:44: Well, leadership has admitted that we are NOT IN DEBT. They have admitted that OUR BILLS ARE PAID. What don't you get about that? Why aren't you up in arms that they are trying to sell our churhces because we are 'one parish' and only need 'one church? The reasons are ridiculous. One priest can go among two or three churches. Balance the budget and stop whining about buildings. Sell off a school, okay, but not our churches. This is all about money.

    We, as a praish want and need our churches. Leadership is blind and deaf to the needs of the parish. They do not care. They have shon that over and over.

    Most of us have given of time and money. You can only take so much crap. What you refuse to admit is that you are wrong! You and your friends on the committees and councils have no humility at all. It is so obvious. Stop blaming everyone else and look at yourselves. You are traitors to the parish. We all know it. You all should be ashamed of yourselves. At least have the decency to stop telling the same lies over and over.

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  42. Gee, I can feel the Christian love. Where do I sign up? I want to be part of the Catholic fraternity too. Who wouldn't after seeing the solidarity on this blog.

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  43. 3:29 Beg to differ. What you are seeing is people who are passionate about their Catholic faith, it's deep tradition and it's spiritual homes, the Church buildings. Sure, we get a little testy at times. But we love our faith, we love our Churches and deep down, in spite of our differences, we love our brothers and sisters in Christ. Like any family, we argue and bicker. Show me a church family where there is not, at times, disagreement or division.

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  44. I guess 3:29 is looking for perfect people in a perfect world. We are all sinners and we lose our tempers. What you wnt is for us to lie down and just take it. Been there, done that. No more.

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  45. If All Saints Parish were to keep in mind that outside of a person’s physical needs for food and safety, the social need for belonging is next up on the hierarchy. In my opinion this is where they are failing parishioners.

    During my daughter’s First Penance preparation, at one of the few group meetings, I raised my hand and told how much my daughter and I enjoyed getting together as a group and that I felt we needed more meetings like this. Well, you’d think I had two heads by the strange looks I received. Well, sorry for the compliment and showing interest to be more involved. How weird?! I thought to myself.

    There are so few social activities in this parish. Look around the city; other churches are doing way more. The church doesn’t have to add amazing music or AC or pens with the parish name on them. People just want to feel like they belong and many don’t.

    If anyone has heard that there was no interest in IHM from the Deacon, How can that be true when I know for fact that another local pastor has been through it? The For Sale sign is still in front of it, but yet at the last D&D the Deacon said it wasn’t technically for sale…What?? That makes me question everything. Or maybe he thinks it’s too complex for us to understand? I’m guessing most people don’t enjoy being lied to, manipulated or left out.

    Maybe it’s only me but I don’t know a single song at church anymore, what’s going on with that? It feels very unfamiliar and strange. I’m not trying to be negative here, just honest. I really, really, really try to follow Deacon Dean’s Homily and he loses me. I can’t stress how much I try to pay attention and yet ……by the end ask me to paraphrase and I just can’t. Is it too intellectual? I doubt it. I could follow hour-long biochemistry lectures in college just fine. Is it too long? Maybe. Is it too obscure? Maybe. Does it go in different directions never to converge into a conclusion? I think so.

    It’s upsetting that I’ve postponed my kid’s religious ed. this year because of all this mess. They will be back soon because in general I conclude that all parishioners and staff who are still here are just doing the best they can with what they’ve got. I’m not leaving and anyone who wants to save this parish should stay too. Stay and save it, speak up and support each other. Don’t leave a family when times are toughest. If you don’t get much from the Homily look around at the people in the pews next to you, chances are they are thinking along the same lines as you. We have more in common than we think.

    Carol

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  46. Hey, my last post was removed. No fair.

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  47. My kids went through confirmation years ago and I have been a sponsor several times. I can assure you it was thorough and meaningful..and nobody sat and preached to the choir. If the kids didn't have to attend for confirmation, they wouldn't be at Cory's so called program. The complaints of those kids and their parents are legitimate.
    I remember an evening when Dean came to Marie's youth group to give a "talk". It was awful,above their heads and the kids spent the night texting the adults asking when it would be over. Guess his sermons are the same..if he's trying to impress someone with his "gift of speech", I'd have to say he fails miserably.

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  48. 2:35--Sell off our school?? Instead of St. Vincents?? We only have one school, we have three churches. And NO, we do NOT "need" our churches. You do not need to have a convenient church down the street from your house to be a Catholic Christian. And we will be going in to debt come the next fiscal year (and we would have long been in debt if it wasn't for the large bequests)

    How dare you say some of us are "traitors" to the parish. Apparently not all parishioners' opinions are created equal, huh? Glad to tolerance on the side of SOP.

    Oh and I see nobody has answered 1:44's question of solution specifics. HUH. What a surprise.

    Hopefully any rational unbiased reader of this blog can determine in about 5 seconds which "side" is based on reason, facts and logic and which "side" is just an overflowing fountain of emotions and personal distaste for certain staff members which in turn fuels opposition at any turn, hoping to twist words around and looking for malicious intent on the part of a church staff at every turn. Do something better with your time than trying to pick apart a supposed "narrative" in bulletin articles. What the heck are they supposed to write about if not spiritual topics and parish news?

    Again, 2:35, YOU are the one who doesn't accept anybody else's view. I can understand where you are coming from but your reactions are just so over the top it doesn't even help your cause in the least.

    Finally, people can only complain for so long. Since SOP apparently hasn't given any sort of plan to the parish leadership, this blog is just a place for a bunch of mostly non-attending parishioners to complain about a parish they don't really belong to anymore. Find something else to do or get involved with the church you are at now and leave us alone.

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  49. New to the blog hello. I can't help but think that selling out is a pernament solution to a temporary problem. Once leadership changes won't people come back and what will we have to offer them? Come on back to a crowded church with no room you. The demolition of St Vincent's Church leaves a pernament mark in this community. Can not the Catholic community support two worship sites? Other denominations can. Are we diminishing so drastically in numbers that we can easily sell out? What faith is there in that? The Catholic community is strong and we will perserver these trials. Deacon Dean is not a member of this community, he has no stake in our history or our future, he will be gone in 8 years at the most. Can't we hold out and let our Catholic identity prevail in this wider community?

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  50. What denominations support two worships sites? Catholic churches all around the diocese and the country are closing churches in cluster parishes. It can't sustain itself. Just do a google search...it's everywhere. It's beyond Deacon Dean. And who are all these supposed people who are coming back after he leaves? How is he affected their life personally? How will him being gone change anything that they apparently don't like?

    It is NOT because of leadership that we have been needing to sell church buildings. They're just an easy target (like when the president is always blamed for a bad economy). This has been discussed for over a decade at numerous meetings, the need for consolidation has ALWAYS been an issue.

    St. Mary's can EASILY fit more people. 9:30 has just changed location, and the Saturday afternoon mass can easily accommodate both congregations, and you could always add another morning mass (7, 8:30, 10, 11:30 for example) They're adding a Christmas Eve mass this year due to the overflow from previous years.

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  51. The question really is, how could a leadership with over 2,000 families NOT be able to support two or three churches? How many protestant churches around here can boast those numbers? The issue isn't buildings, the issue is attendance and giving. The leadership has driven off hundreds and giving is down because of bad decisions. That is also true for the diocese in general. Bad leadership.

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  52. Why add another mass at SM? Why not have a second mass at SV? Oh yeah, that's the one they are 'weaning' us off of. You might be surprised at how little need you all have for an 'overflow' mass this year.

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  53. Regarding the asinine mantra that parishioners have not offered a plan, please note the brief suggested plan in the sidebar on the right.

    There have been meetings and ideas and suggestions galore from parishioners. It has been shown that we can afford our churches; we just need to balance the budget, plan for maintenance and repairs and fund raise. Leadership refuses to do all three. Indeed, leadership is planning to fail with their own reports/plans/financials.

    There is nothing more that can be done on the part of parishioners than to continue to get the truth out there and hope our bishop heeds it, to pray, and to continue to form a Catholic sense of community as best we can.

    It would be amusing if not so sad, to read that those who favor destroying our churches are accusing those who favor saving them of being the ones to tear down the church.

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  54. As a non-Catholic, I was willing to sit this one out and let the Catholics battle it out.
    Then I received a flyer in the mail yesterday warning that if the sale of St. Vincent’s goes through and the Corning-Painted Post facilities proposal is passed, two low-income housing units might be built on the two sites.
    Well, of course residents can’t do anything about the St. Vincent’s sale. It’s a done deal that has received the blessing of the bishop.
    But the public can stop the Corning-Painted Post facilities project.
    How dare you jeopardize education in the district for your own selfish desire to have a church you can walk to? Fixing the district’s schools is infinitely more important than keeping a half-used church open. If St. Vincent’s closes, there are other churches in the area, including St. Mary’s, to attend.
    If, on the other hand, the facilities plan doesn’t pass, another generation of students may be forced to learn in outdated, crowded classrooms, residents will continue to move to neighboring districts and property values will continue to fall.
    Apparently misleading residents and putting the facilities plan in danger are part of SOP’s scorched earth, take-no-prisoners campaign. As long as you save your precious church, it doesn’t matter who you throw under the bus or that you bend the truth almost, but not quite, to the point of lying.
    The ends justify the means.
    Because of the flyer you’ve made an enemy out of someone who was indifferent to the sale of St. Vincent’s. I am going to write to Bishop Clark, All Saints officials and city officials applauding the sale and will do anything in my power to move the sale forward.

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  55. To Anonymous 10:23

    I daresay, judging from your familiar tone and writing, that you are probably staff or councils.

    We will reprint the flyer and let others judge for themselves whether parishioners were attempting to jeopardize education in the CPP area. The flyer itself will dispel that lie.

    The community does have a voice that deserves to be heard regarding the sale and demolition of St. Vincent Catholic Church. Parish leadership has said that there are numerous steps that must be taken -- the zoning commission has to approve the change and so on. Residents are urged to contact their city council representatives and to attend the upcoming city council meeting at 7 p.m. on Monday, Dec. 6.

    The flyer did not take a stand one way or the other on the facilities plan. It merely states that residents have the right to vote on the facilities plan, unlike the situation with SV, where an outside organization is making decisions that have important consequences to the community surrounding the church.

    Residents have the right to let their views be known to the city council and zoning commission.

    The crass attempt to make this a political issue between residents of the north side and the future of education in the CPP school district will surely discredit your argument.

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  56. The people who received a flyer indeed can do something about St. vincent's. That is why we received the flyer. neighborhood Preservation, maybe, and when I read the flyer I had a completely different reaction than the blogger above. I guess I have believed the school vote is now a given "yes" and that Blodgett will become housing. do we want two housing projects in such close proximity? I do not so am writing to the council people to say so. Actually, I am glad I got a flyer to let me know what is going on over there at St. Vincent,s And I support an updated, state of the art education and facilities. I see it as a "both and" , support schools and neighborhoods.

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  57. Seems to me 10:23 you are truly misguided. The flyer that I received from the Saving our Parish group was only to address the issues at hand not certainly to take a stand one way or another as far as the CPP facilities plan is concerned. This isnt at all about having 'a church we can walk to' either. Your attempt to discredit the SOP has fallen sadly short and only appears you have your own "agenda".

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  58. I have not been on this blog in a while and alls I can say is WOW. I thought things were getting better but there has been no improvement. You people have not changed you continue to bash everyone that you disagree with and continue to drag the Catholic Church down to a new low. I am almost to the point of leaving ASP not because of the administration but because of you people. I am sorry but please leave and leave now so that we can get our church back in order.

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  59. Sorry 10:08pm, the parish will not be inorder if all who oppose leadership leave and leave now. 75% of the parish would be gone. 'tis better that there is a change in leadership, don't you think?

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  60. This is not a true business transaction or business based action and everyone can see this. Please stop insulting our intelligence with any claims that this is a business based action or in the best interest of the Parish. There is no debt issue and the community can and has support 2 churches and even 4 churches. We can and will support St.Vincent's and the administration knows this, that is why they are not giving us that option. This is not a sale to cover expenses or preserve the local Catholic Community and Parish. This is either mismanagement or a personal agenda being implemented. It is a preordained agenda that is being calculatively implemented and executed and the people who have been raised on trust of their religious leaders are remaining silent. The flock is being herded not heard. The Diocese is conducting a crooked shell game. They are on both sides of this transaction and we as Catholics are going to pay for the sale and the expenses of the administration. The diocese holds all the cards and cannot lose by this transaction. Providence House is funded, run and administrated by the diocese, just as the Administration of the Corning Catholic Community is led and administered by the diocese. There is a clear conflict of interest by those conducting this transaction. Parties are serving on both sides of this transaction and do we really think their decision have anything to do with the best interests of this Parish? Mr. Rossetti is an obvious example of the serving on both sides of the transaction as is the Bishop himself who has overall control of this entire transaction and both parties to it. That is why the sale price is below any fair market value and why none of this makes any sense. Let’s all wake up and realize that we are being sold down the river and we have to all ask the leader of our flock, the Bishop, why this is happening and why he is betraying and neglecting his people and not doing the mission he was entrusted to perform. I do not mean any disrespect to the Bishop, but the Shepherd he follows and represents always protected his flock and not those who would do the flock harm. He can answer these concerns by responding to his people.

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  61. I am not catholic but have been following the blog because I reside here in Corning. From my perspective, I am impressed that so many people are fighting for something they believe in. In my church, I wish there was this much fire and passion. I have no right to have an opinion on the sale of the church but you all are putting up an impressive battle that is somewhat a reminder of David and Goliath and I wish you success.

    Mike Hill

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  62. $350,000 to $450,000 for a property that has a full market value of just over 2.1 MILLION dollars! Anyone who put even one day's work into St. Vincent's ought to feel infuriated.

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  63. Thank you for the message, Mike. It is much appreciated. God bless and say a little prayer for your brethren in faith. I know that many who read your message will be thankful and breathe a prayer of gratitude for your support.

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  64. I've finally figured out why the parish is in such financial dire straits. The parish has hundreds, if not thousands, of employees. Everyone who has a different opinion from Gretchen is on the church payroll. That's like three quarters of the parish, if not more. If you drive around the south side, you don't see many of those yard signs.

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  65. Hey 9:57,

    You are kind of a leader, huh? As regular as rain and right on time.

    I know of several south side people who are active in opposing the sale of SV. They know the issue is bigger than who lives where.

    You're just reporting what you see though, right?

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  66. Hello 9:57 am. Please come to Third St where I live and see our signs. Speak with us. We are all members of this parish, not some small group clustered around St.Vincent's. Go out to Painted Post. I guess you haven't done your homework.

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