Now is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It won’t last forever. We must take it or leave it. – C.S. Lewis
Anonymous 3:50 Please, check the two posts above you. Where is there present the judgementalness YOU are making against others words? I read a clarification of definitions and and inquiry as to origin of the word.
We are privy to the subtle, little, "slip-them-in-when-no-one-is watching" insertations of Protestantism in our parish. While this movement is not isolated to All Saints, it is none the less, in our face and in our Church.
Jean- Of course you have the attention of the parish staff. You have mocked, criticized and chastised their boss. You have even attacked some staff members by name. You are thwarting the efforts of the staff and councils and Deacon Dean to move forward in a direction that THEY all agree on. So, yes, you have our attention but it's not without cost.
Anonymous 4:34. It goes both ways. Parishioners have been mocked and criticized as well. They have been ignored and marginalized for years. The cost, as you put it, has been paid by many over the last several years.
Staff has counted on the silent suffering of parishioners, while decisions were made that are out of alignment with the needs and desires of the parish as a whole. You cannot lead an entire parish if only a favored few will follow.
The call to serve has apparently been swallowed up by a sense of entitlement. Our parish makes a great pretense of having a foot-washing ritual each year, something that is supposed to underscore what it means to lead with the heart of a servant. The reality, however, is something quite different.
Your comment again underscores that unfortunate truth.
You are thwarting the efforts of the staff and councils and Deacon Dean to move forward in a direction that THEY all agree on. I noticed you used the word "THEY" not "WE". Appears to me that "YOU" are a litle one sided. Guess you stuck your own foot in your mouth.
I don't know why you would say I Mocked, criticized and chastised their boss. This is the first I have written on this blog. Have been reading it every day and their seems to me that someone or maybe more from parish staff are voicing their opinion and that is fine but when you pointed a finger at me then now I feel I need to voice my opinion. You say I even furnished names and that is untrue as I am now new at writing on this blog. My final feeling for me is that Deacon Dean is not my boss. As far as Church goes my Boss is God. God Bless the people of SOP for trying to save our Church.
They, we...what is the accusation? On another note, many are curious as to what the next move is for the SOP? The snow will be falling soon, how long do you leave the signs up? You have made your point. Will you respect the decision of the Bishop? At some point, can we finally move on?
Jean- If you are not one of "them", I apologize. In my defense, you sound like a supporter of the SOP, who have mocked, criticized and chastised Dean, at any opportunity.
Let's get clear just what SOP is and is not. There are many individuals who visit this site, who have opinions that may or may not dovetail with those who have publicly identified with Saving Our Parish.
We all have differing ideas and opinions because we are all individuals--all parishioners who are journeying on this most interesting path together.
We haven't lumped in every 'anonymous' with all of the decisions that parish leadership has made, as that would be unjust.
To the level at which people choose to express their discontent with leadership's actions, that is solely an individual decision and not something that should be lumped together with a website.
Open-minded thinkers will consider your comments without lumping them with every good or bad decision that leadership has made.
In the arena of ideas, where a free exchange is allowed, one is compelled to defend one's words and actions. It is apparently this that bothers some here most of all. They desire to work in the dark and be unaccountable in decisions that profoundly impact the spiritual life of the faithful.
Freedom of speech is a fundamental and God-given right, provided for in natural law, canon law, and the first amendment of the Constitution.
We all understand that the bishop has a decision to make, and that short of canonical appeals, his decision stands inviolate. But in the meantime, it is incumbent upon parishioners to give him as much information as possible so that his ultimate decision can be made with a full understanding of the situation here in Corning.
To help him understand that the decision to recommend the sale of St. Vincent's does not have the wide support that leadership is claiming, and in fact, puts souls at risk by jeopardizing their faith.
Contrary to what leadership is saying, this is not just about buildings and money. The issues include how the Catholic Church feeds (or starves) its own sheep, and how it interfaces with the community on important issues that affect everyone.
I truly believe that the bishop is fully aware of the dissent here in Corning but has chosen to have someone else do his dirty work. He stated in the Courier that he's aware there are blogs out there but that he doesn't read them. I'm sure if he's not that someone else up there is filling him in. This whole mess isn't like turning a switch in and off. No matter the outcome, the hurt and pain on both sides is going to take years to overcome. We all know Dean is never going to back down from his "mission" and a single church building or not, nothing is going to change while he's at the helm. It's always been about him(me, myself and I). But in the end, no one is going to be able to say "why didn't someone speak up?" So we all do what we gotta do...go to another Catholic church, go to a protestant church, or stop going to church.
Anonymous of 8:12 AM said..."If you are not one of "them", I apologize. In my defense, you sound like a supporter of the SOP, who have mocked, criticized and chastised Dean, at any opportunity."
I have made it know that I am a member of the SOP core team -- so yes, I am one of "them." (Here we go with the "us vs. them" mentality!) Please point out to me, Anonymous, where I have mocked, criticized and chastised Deacon Dean. All I have done is express my disappointment and at times anger about marginalization of the entire parish's views and discernment on this issue...an issue that affects the ENTIRE parish.
If you can find a "Mary" post (I believe I am the only one) that does any of those things you mention, then I will apologize on this blog. When you don't find one -- I expect an apology from you.
Isn't "worship site" primarily a Protestant term?
ReplyDeleteBig difference. I can just hear my 5 year old whining on a Sunday morning: "Why do we have to go to the worship site? We already went last time."
ReplyDeleteHere we go again, trying to make the Deacon Dean-Protestant connection. Nit picking at terminology- is this the best you can come up with?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 3:50
ReplyDeletePlease, check the two posts above you. Where is there present the judgementalness YOU are making against others words? I read a clarification of definitions and and inquiry as to origin of the word.
We are privy to the subtle, little, "slip-them-in-when-no-one-is watching" insertations of Protestantism in our parish. While this movement is not isolated to All Saints, it is none the less, in our face and in our Church.
ReplyDeleteappears we have the parish staff's attention. Imagine that!
ReplyDeleteJean- Of course you have the attention of the parish staff. You have mocked, criticized and chastised their boss. You have even attacked some staff members by name. You are thwarting the efforts of the staff and councils and Deacon Dean to move forward in a direction that THEY all agree on. So, yes, you have our attention but it's not without cost.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 4:34. It goes both ways. Parishioners have been mocked and criticized as well. They have been ignored and marginalized for years. The cost, as you put it, has been paid by many over the last several years.
ReplyDeleteStaff has counted on the silent suffering of parishioners, while decisions were made that are out of alignment with the needs and desires of the parish as a whole. You cannot lead an entire parish if only a favored few will follow.
The call to serve has apparently been swallowed up by a sense of entitlement. Our parish makes a great pretense of having a foot-washing ritual each year, something that is supposed to underscore what it means to lead with the heart of a servant. The reality, however, is something quite different.
Your comment again underscores that unfortunate truth.
You are thwarting the efforts of the staff and councils and Deacon Dean to move forward in a direction that THEY all agree on.
ReplyDeleteI noticed you used the word "THEY" not "WE". Appears to me that "YOU" are a litle one sided. Guess you stuck your own foot in your mouth.
To Anonymous 11/12 4:34pm
ReplyDeleteI don't know why you would say I Mocked, criticized and chastised their boss. This is the first I have written on this blog. Have been reading it every day and their seems to me that someone or maybe more from parish staff are voicing their opinion and that is fine but when you pointed a finger at me then now I feel I need to voice my opinion. You say I even furnished names and that is untrue as I am now new at writing on this blog. My final feeling for me is that Deacon Dean is not my boss. As far as Church goes my Boss is God. God Bless the people of SOP for trying to save our Church.
They, we...what is the accusation?
ReplyDeleteOn another note, many are curious as to what the next move is for the SOP? The snow will be falling soon, how long do you leave the signs up? You have made your point. Will you respect the decision of the Bishop? At some point, can we finally move on?
Jean- If you are not one of "them", I apologize. In my defense, you sound like a supporter of the SOP, who have mocked, criticized and chastised Dean, at any opportunity.
ReplyDeleteLet's get clear just what SOP is and is not. There are many individuals who visit this site, who have opinions that may or may not dovetail with those who have publicly identified with Saving Our Parish.
ReplyDeleteWe all have differing ideas and opinions because we are all individuals--all parishioners who are journeying on this most interesting path together.
We haven't lumped in every 'anonymous' with all of the decisions that parish leadership has made, as that would be unjust.
To the level at which people choose to express their discontent with leadership's actions, that is solely an individual decision and not something that should be lumped together with a website.
Open-minded thinkers will consider your comments without lumping them with every good or bad decision that leadership has made.
In the arena of ideas, where a free exchange is allowed, one is compelled to defend one's words and actions. It is apparently this that bothers some here most of all. They desire to work in the dark and be unaccountable in decisions that profoundly impact the spiritual life of the faithful.
Freedom of speech is a fundamental and God-given right, provided for in natural law, canon law, and the first amendment of the Constitution.
We all understand that the bishop has a decision to make, and that short of canonical appeals, his decision stands inviolate. But in the meantime, it is incumbent upon parishioners to give him as much information as possible so that his ultimate decision can be made with a full understanding of the situation here in Corning.
To help him understand that the decision to recommend the sale of St. Vincent's does not have the wide support that leadership is claiming, and in fact, puts souls at risk by jeopardizing their faith.
Contrary to what leadership is saying, this is not just about buildings and money. The issues include how the Catholic Church feeds (or starves) its own sheep, and how it interfaces with the community on important issues that affect everyone.
Gretchen,
ReplyDeleteThanks for explaining just what SOP is about. I feel some think otherwise. I realize all we want to do is to save our lovely St. Vincents Church.
Thanks for all the time you and others have spent trying to save our Church.
Prayers go out to you all.
I truly believe that the bishop is fully aware of the dissent here in Corning but has chosen to have someone else do his dirty work. He stated in the Courier that he's aware there are blogs out there but that he doesn't read them. I'm sure if he's not that someone else up there is filling him in. This whole mess isn't like turning a switch in and off. No matter the outcome, the hurt and pain on both sides is going to take years to overcome. We all know Dean is never going to back down from his "mission" and a single church building or not, nothing is going to change while he's at the helm. It's always been about him(me, myself and I). But in the end, no one is going to be able to say "why didn't someone speak up?" So we all do what we gotta do...go to another Catholic church, go to a protestant church, or stop going to church.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous of 8:12 AM said..."If you are not one of "them", I apologize. In my defense, you sound like a supporter of the SOP, who have mocked, criticized and chastised Dean, at any opportunity."
ReplyDeleteI have made it know that I am a member of the SOP core team -- so yes, I am one of "them." (Here we go with the "us vs. them" mentality!) Please point out to me, Anonymous, where I have mocked, criticized and chastised Deacon Dean. All I have done is express my disappointment and at times anger about marginalization of the entire parish's views and discernment on this issue...an issue that affects the ENTIRE parish.
If you can find a "Mary" post (I believe I am the only one) that does any of those things you mention, then I will apologize on this blog. When you don't find one -- I expect an apology from you.
Gretchen- Good comments. Good sense. Good God, please let your will be done.
ReplyDelete