Now is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It won’t last forever. We must take it or leave it. – C.S. Lewis
Monday, November 1, 2010
Comment moderation
We're turning on comment moderation for the next few hours, hoping cooler heads will prevail.
Regarding the previous two comments. Do you blame him/her for leaving a place where his/her Spiritual needs were not being met? We still have chance here, but if it comes to the worse, I would not be surprise to see an exodus to other parishes. Our Parish administration should consider that. Where we go so does our money. I AM NOT ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO LEAVE ASP but I could not blame those who do (will do) out of disappointment. Yours in Christ, Emily O.
Thanks, Em..I've been making the trek going on 5 years. I'm very comfortable and among good people and good friends. It will be ok..gotta do what's best for me and my family. Nobody has cared up to now so really nothing has changed.
Dear Anonymous 8:50, I understood what you meant in you first (second on this post). I was just giving you a possible reason for him/her leaving. Don't give up on us, pray with and for us, and maybe together we can prevent others from leaving by showing we do care about them. Yours in Christ, Emily
Just to let everyone know, Providence Housing is not going to put "Senior Housing" on the Northside. It is subsidized housing for who ever qualifies. Look at the website and see for yourself. Write them a letter as well. Who thinks having three subsidized housing complexes within 2 miles is good for the Northside of Corning? I don't. That's what will happen. You've got the old Meadowbrook apts., Providence House and Northside Blodgett has a good chance at becoming the same. Website is below:
The previous post is exactly right, check out the "senior" or "senior low income" housing in Corning, Bath, & Hornell. This provides an opportunity to recruit others to your cause and swell your ranks. Now pass the ammunition & stand up & fight. They have not listened to you so far and actually ridicule SOP on your own blog. Raise some $$, hire a lawyer, go public with your inconsistencies & half truths, question the zoning, etc.
We are also ready. Attended both meetings and the dinner and dialogue have become much more informed of the REAL situation. Thank you SOP!! Let me know where we can send our contribution. My husband and I want to help in any way possible. Thank you again for all you have done and all you continue to do.
I would like to know what ideas have been presented to the Parish that will help close the budget gap. I have seen none. You have done well bashing Dean, Cory, Trish, the Parish council, the Finance Committee, the Facilities Committee and others but you have never once presented any plans to help save the parish.
I see that you're so desperate that you're scaring people with garbage about subsidized housing now. Way to play the "fear" card. You guys remind me more and more of Tom O'Brien and Sylvia Huber every day.
I understand the anger--on both sides. But there will not be a repeat of yesterday. If it starts to escalate, I will turn on comment moderation again. Keep it civil.
What? No bashing staff who have a direct link to the state of the parish but we can bash 2 people who are not involved in the issue? Now that's fair play.
On the contrary, the SOP group has presented ideas for financial solvency but the ideas have fallen on deaf ears or have been ridiculed or outright rejected by administration. The Sunday presentation at Union Hall presented a yearly plan that would not only increase revenue but more importantly would begin to renew community to SVdeP.. Maybe that is why the blog now has people wanting to donate. Donations I fear will not come with the present situation in place in the parish. Senior subsidized housing is fact not fear.
@ 10:06... Sorry, but in the presentations Bill clearly stated that the funding route used by PH prohibited designation of StV property as solely senior housing. The funding would not allow for delineation on any criteria.
I have a question about spiritual needs not being met? We still have masses being said by the priests. What more could they do to meet your spiritual needs? For those who have commented that they have moved on, and no one ever cared, did you expect someone to come running after you to find out why you chose to go to another church. Everyone has the freedom to attend mass where they feel comfortable. I wonder if you ever decide to "come home" if the parish you are now attending is going to find out why you have choosen to leave them! I doubt it but I don't think it shows that no one really cared anyway.
People just seem to feel they have a right to their little church thats walking distance away. Maybe they should go over to Africa and walk an hour to mass every week to gain a little perspective.
you stated that "Everyone has the freedom to attend mass where they feel comfortable." But that as we all can see is not true, the majority of parishioners are more comfortable with St. Vincent's and if the sale continues that will no longer be an option. Also yes someone should have gone running after those who have left and tried to better meet their needs, but as was stated earlier they must not care.
How every cruel and callous to say that Catholics who worked and sacrificed to build a church in their community have no right to it. If you are so bent on making Catholics get in the car to attend mass, perhaps we should all just head an hour or so north and attend the cathedral. That way we would all be equal, right?
1:52 If people don't take their name off the parish registry, how is anyone to know they are not attending mass any more? And no, more people attend St. Mary's every week than St. Vincent's, so you could easily argue that they are more comfortable at St. Mary's.
You have no more right to demand a bankrupt church stay open just because you gave money (or lack thereof) to keep up the building, than you do having a say in where your local Wegmans is just because of the fact you gave money to it. Thats just the way life works.
1. SOP did present various ideas for financial solvency but no one listened because (at least in my opinion) they had their minds already made.
2.Taking care of the less fortunate is not the problem here, it is the fact that the information provided is misleading and no one should be asked to make a decision based in half-true information.
3.Regarding us trying to save our little Church, St. Vincent has a better campus than St. Mary's. Now how would you feel if the story was reversed and they decided on selling St. Mary's which is located in prime real estate? I bet there would be an uproar.
4. Regarding people spiritual needs...do you really think that Sunday Mass is enough? Are we truly that apathetic to other individuals needs? No one is expecting to have someone running after them but just the fact that people are leaving should be enough to make us examine our own actions.
5. And finally, I've been to Africa and South America and the people don't travel hours to get to church...THE PRIEST does!!! I have fond memories of my mission trip to Honduras when I spent 14 hours with the missionaries and the priest stopping to say Mass at 4 different sites about 2 1/2 hours away from each other.. Now that was a Sunday to remember!
The parish is supposedly bankrupt, not the church. Nice try. If any church was going to be torn down it should be St. Marys. Old, tottering, in a bad neighborhood. Needs the most reparis. Could go on.
To Jennifer, I really don't think the majority of parishioners are more comfortable with St. Vincent's as you have a good number of parishioners who already attend St. Mary's Church. And did you go and ask those that you know who left, why? Don't you think that it is also your responibility as a parishioner of ASP to find out why others are leaving? It is not just the job of the staff.
Yes as a parishioner we should all seek those who have left but my part only goes so far, i can not change the thimgs that the administration can. If i could we would not be in this situation.
It is the STAFF that should be asking former parishioners why they left. They should be knocking on doors and begging people to return. Don't they see what happened to Alene and Eleanor? Do they think they will be spared? The very fact that they aren't looking for the lost sheep is a validation of the bigger problem- they don't care.
If I was one of the altar "crew" who suddenly wasn't there anymore I'd probably get a call wondering where I am. Being an ordinary individual, sitting weekly in a pew, doesn't merit anything when I'm no longer there. I doubt if he knows 1/4 of the parishioners in the congregation,other than those contributing the "big bucks". At least Fr. Lew makes it a point to know those he serves.
Deacon Dean should be going through the parish directory, calling every single Catholic who is not attending mass. He should feel responsible to know why these people are no longer part of the family he leads. He should want to know why they left and how he can convince them to return. He should be fighting for parishioners- not for their money but for their souls.
Far be it from me to usurp anybody's right to keep talking, but I'm worn out with this hashing and rehashing here. Maybe it's time to retreat to our separate camps and resign ourselves to a parish ripped apart. Let's save ourselves a lot more angst, revert to our trenches, and each camp claim victory on the rubble of an imploded body of faith that used to be ASP.
But before I settle down for a nice holiday season in my bunker I want to get something off my chest. I hate that our parish business has been turned over to the media. And I'm really not interested in who thinks why it was important to do so. It is simply not the Catholic way that I hold dear. It is OUR business. OUR business. Please don't come back at me on this one because I know the argument and like I said, I really don't want to hear it again. I don't buy it.
So before retiring in victory, let me get on the record. I'm in the camp that notes and cares about the serious shortcomings of the administration but, forced to choose, values the community of faith more. I am in the camp that values St. Vincent's in all its meaning, but, forced to choose, values faith community more. I'm in the camp that wishes the councils were perfect and less defensive but refuses to ascribe bad intent/motivation to them. I'm in the camp that abhors any suggestion of any financial malfeasance. I'm in a camp. Not very satisfying. Wish I wasn't.
Bill, I appreciate you so much. Thank you for your heartfelt comments. I wish I wasn't in a camp,too. We are all in the parish camp, whether we agree or not. I have chosen to make my voice heard. I believe that it is a fundamental right given to me by God and endorsed by His Church. But above all, I believe we are brethren, no matter what 'side' we are on. May God richly bless you and I look forward to a time in which we can sit together in perfect harmony.
First of all, "Holiday" season? We Catholics call it "Christmas". And secondly, if we didn't have this site to vent on, we'd have nothing. Maybe it's getting us nowhere but at least many know our feelings and sentiments and it can never be said that nobody cared. Thanks for the site, Gretchen.
Don't agree on the media issue, Bill. Lack of transparency has gotten the Church into much trouble. (ex. Priest scandal) This is not a private divorce between two consenting people, as you state, we are a community. There would be few in this community who haven't heard that the local Catholics aren't happy with their Pastoral Admin. They see the demolishion of buildings and the For Sale signs. They see new faces in their Churches. From where I sit, it is good that these people also see that some of the Catholics are pushing back. In fact, as life-long Roman Catholic, I would be more discouraged if we didn't. Will we win the battle you make reference to? Who knows how God is using people to build up his Church? The casualities are many but I still beleive it needed to be done and have confidence that healing will come.
At least 10,20, 30 years down the road when all that remain are vague memories and faded pictures of Saint Vincents, people will remember that the Church didn't go down without a fight.
Thank you for your comments Bill. There was a day when I so agreed with you about keeping things within the church and not for public distribution. However, we see the results of that in the church worldwide with the priest scandal that was finally uncovered so some action could be taken to protect the victims. So, I too am saddened that it has come to this before our leadership takes action of some kind when basic justice is violated within the church.
How do you think the Deacon or the priest knows who attended what mass or whether they even attended mass at all. We have different masses at different churches and the last time I checked we didn't sign an attendance sheet when we walked in.
Can't believe your response! I compare it to the school building principal not knowing the students. Get out from behind the desk of deceit and mingle. Sorry Gretchen for the response, but how much can we take?
To be honest, since when does Mass attendance constitute who knows whom? With the way people find out information in Corning I find it hard to believe that the grapevine which according to a research study is 90% true, has never reached a staff person. Bottom line is , the shepherd leaves the 99 saved and goes and SEEKS the one who has left the flock or is lost. The issue is a no brainer, if it is important to you to seek and find you do it.
Good article Gretchen, on Are we Vatican II People. I just wish someone who is responsible for the lack of Vat.II would please answer some of the questions as to why the people of this parish continue to be deprived of living the call of Vatican II. It seems since there has not been another Council since Vaqt.II that the decisions of that Council are still in effect to be followed.
10:20- Check the parish directory (It's only 4 years old) for names and addresses of Catholics, most of whom are not attending mass here. A good place to start.
You're comparinging church staff to pedophile priests? Tearing down reputations and individual's good names over dislike of leadership style and disagreements on policy/financial decisions just isn't right.
Gretchen, there's a thin line between what is going on this blog and slander/libel. The line separating this blog from cyber-bullying has already been crossed.
(In case anyone is wondering, I'm not a staff member, a member of the church, or even a Corning resident - what you publish on this blog goes far beyond the parish and the community)
cyber bullying is a strectch since noone will post who they are so all of the targets here are pretty general. And just for the record the bullying goes both ways so please lets not make it look like the supporters of SOP are the only one's at fault here.
I have to respond that a building principal has a smaller number of students to know and the students are required to be there at the same time each day if not they are marked absent. In a larger school a principal would not know who was missing without looking at the attendance sheet. Maybe someone could start walking up and down the aisles and make note of all those at that mass, then you could start making phone calls asking them why they did not attend mass!
Anonymous 1:50 -- That is a ridiculous statement. The individual was merely saying that the desire to avoid scandal in the Church through keeping things hidden results in big problems, like the pedophile priest problem.
I could check the parish directory and see who may not be at the mass I regularly attend but I don't know that the other people are not attending a different mass. Good job for the ushers start taking down names of people at mass and then relay it back to the staff so they can make phone calls as it was stated earlier, that it should be there job!
Thank you Gretchen. That was exactly what I was trying to say. I am amazed that anyone could conclude what 1:50 pm did. Will try to be even more clear next time. And I would ask the author of 1:50 to seek clarification next time before the strong incorrect conclusion. Sure would help keep the blog from "going over the line". We all know there are ways and there are ways.Honey is always better than vinegar as our mother's often told us.
This is Anonymous 1:50 responding to: " cyber bullying is a strectch since noone will post who they are so all of the targets here are pretty general. And just for the record the bullying goes both ways so please lets not make it look like the supporters of SOP are the only one's at fault here"
The target is perfectly clear: Deacon Dean Condon. He has been clearly named again and again as the target on this blog. I stand by my statement that some of the comments on this blog amount to cyberbullying.
In response to Anon. 4:0 regarding asking for clarification, this is the internet - what you put out there about the man is out there and will be out there for years to come. A few years from now when someone is looking up the deacon on the web and finds your comments, they won't be in a position to ask you for clarification. And this blog has already gone over the line.
To the person who made the bullying comment. I think you're way off base there. I don't see anything of the sort posted on this blog. Instead I see people trying pretty hard to be civil and to follow the guidelines that Gretchen has laid out.
Further to above, which takes into account your statement.
I think it's worth considering that many of the people who have spoken harshly about Deacon Dean probably feel bullied by him. That they have strong feelings as a reaction to that does not make them bullies.
As for it remaining a record for years to come, do you oppose that on the grounds that people are speaking anonymously? I have stated here that I have a problem with that. But otherwise, I don't understand your objection. After all, for whatever it is this blog is a record of interested people speaking to the subject at hand. Why is that not a valid record to retain?
I will agree that many comments about Deacon Dean have been very harsh, quite a few that are in my opinion unnecessarily hurtful. But people are upset and speaking strongly. Why would we want to restrict that unless it becomes libel or slander, which I am not seeing here?
Yes, I agree, Dean is the oft targeted object of this blog. But that's because in the minds of many Dean is the issue. It's the issue people want to be heard on. I don't see another way around that, nor do I think we should seek one. Regardless that I disagree with much that is posted in this blog, I do believe that people have a right to be heard.
4:41 Just curious if you have been watching the news or reading the paper in the last 24 hours. Lots of comments on our President Obama. Most not favorable. Many claiming that he is not leading the country well. Many stating that people are unhappy and demonstrated their frustration in the voting booths. Some people feel that he has lied to the country, even broken promises. Bullying? Would you suggest that we keep our observations to ourselves in all situations or just in regards to the local parish?
5:30 True. I would add that when a person is in a position of authority, they need to have thick skin because they will be criticized and scrutinized. Comes with the turf.
To 1:50: if as you say you are not a member of the staff or the parish, or community then why the anonymous? Hey 1:50 dont let it out but I'm the Easter Bunny!
Wow, the blog has quickly gone from useful to useless! Please get back on line. Gretchen as you are the leader please take charge. We have to get back to our original mission "get rid of Dean", oh wait I meant "keep St Vincent’s Church open"....
Here's something that the Pro-More Buildings than We Can Afford people should keep in mind.
The Bible only showed Jesus in a church (synagogue) a couple of times and the most memorable time he was trashing the place because they had lost their way.
The vast majority of the Bible is about Jesus walking among sinners, not holed up in a building.
I think God would be more pleased if there were no churches and the money wasted maintaining buildings that are usually empty was used to feed his sheep.
8:15 Agree to both of the missions but don't like your choice of words "get rid of Dean". I prefer to support Deacon Dean as he acknowledges that in the best interest of himself, his family and the parish, he remove himself from the position of Pastoral Administrator. In spite of the fact that he has been an unsuccessful leader, he deserves to be treated with dignity.
11:27 You sell your house, live on the street and preach on the corner and I'll follow your lead. Really. Are you serious? When Jesus was walking among the sinners, there was no Church with a tabernacle housing His physical presence. We need Churches. We need a home for Jesus. Would you suggest a "Tabernacle on the Corner"? We could drive-by and wave.
11:27 Oh, and we'll have funerals at the local Marconi Lodge. And baptisms, well, we can use the pool at the Radisson. For marriages, Centerway will work. The possibilities are endless. Who needs Churches? For mass, maybe we can use the auditorium at one of the high schools. Sorry to be sarcastic but what a ridiculous thought.
That comment of no churches is typical of people who have embraced, even unknowingly, the heresy of gnosticism, the belief that matter is bad, evil, unneeded. If that were so, Jesus would not need to be present with us in Body and Blood.
Also, I agree that Deacon Dean should be treated with respect, even when we disagree greatly with him.
And, Jesus was an observant Jew who came and worshipped in the temple according to Jewish law. He foresaw the destruction of the temple that was to come. He never advocated it. It is only in heaven, according to Revelation, that we will no longer need the temple.
Well,folks,the church was established after Jesus' resurrection and over the centuries has become so institutionalized that often the message of Jesus is totally lost.His life hopefully is a model for the message He wants lived. I too agree that Dean should be treated with dignity and supported in acknowledging he is just not a good fit for here and move on to where he can be.
Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
But thank you Anonymous 11:27 for proving my point exactly. The church and most of its members got so wrapped up in its ceremonies, its pot luck dinners and the trappings of religion that they've forgotten what true faith even means.
You know where I had Christmas service last year? In my livingroom. We sang songs, took turns reading the Bible aloud, talked about how God touched our lives and gave our prayers for the new year. I felt closer to God in my livingroom in my pajamas that morning than I ever have in a church service.
Just wanted to respond to something regarding whether or not "they care" why people leave. Prior to removing our names from the membership at All Saints, we made an effort to contact Deacon Dean and the diocese regarding our concerns with no response. Once we made the decision to leave(after a couple of years of being unhappy) we didn't need to be called. I sent a letter explaining our concern/disappointment. I did receive a response from the diocese and they basically let me know that they don't care and are happy with the current direction of the parish. However, once again we did not receive a response of any kind from Deacon Dean. Pretty evident to me that they don't care. The one thing that is not evident to me is who exactly will be filling the pews at this soon to be "mega church"? When everyone has left to worship other places, who will be left to support this undertaking? We have no money now so who will support this effort? No money and no parishioners but yet it is a good idea to build this complex?
Oh,and many churches of other denominations have been happy to worship in whatever space has been made available, including school auditoriums and store fronts. But I understand Catholics can't feel close to God unless they are surrounded by stained glass.
So I guess stained glass and religious objects of beauty are a distraction and not an inspiration. Yet God was very clear about the great care that was taken to design and build the temple, down to the tassels. "I am the LORD; I change not," we are told in the Bible. But I guess that's not good enough for all those who are dreaming of a new age, where we can cart around the tabernacle and plunk it down on a card table. If Catholic churches are so unimportant, how come our diocese's cathedral was recently renovated at great cost? If you like communing with the Lord in your jamjams, great. But you won't receive the Eucharist there unless you are a shut-in or on your deathbed, and you aren't obeying the scripture rule of assembling togehter for worship with the congregation. When did it become a sin to build a sacred house of prayer? This is all so devilish.
Sorry. Didn't mean to distract from the bashing of the parish leadership to bring up substantive issues that might actually bring people closer to God. Continue with the bashing. I'll subside.
11:38 and 11:43...come on and wake up! St. Mary's will still be here. Cut the garbage about where funerals/baptisms are held. The vast majority of our funerals/baptisms/weddings all take place at St. Mary's anyway! It is this same type of irrationality that causes people to drive an extra 10 minutes to go to a church that has a mass 10 minutes shorter than the one they live 5 minutes away from. How does that make any sense?? I remember someone making a comment about this earlier. Guess its just too much Jesus time for them.
So Anonymous 12:57, you have concrete numbers for your contention? As it gets closer to closing down a church they slowly withdraw masses and such from the targeted church. It's part of the method.
And St. Mary's if it ends up being the only church, will have many less weddings, funerals and baptisms. People will leave. But we know that none of you care. You will have those on a fixed income, and then where will you be in a few years? Watching them tear down St. Mary's after they buy back IHM for their new-sized congregation.
Anon at 12:57, as someone who drives from East Corning to Addison each Saturday, I can assure you that it's not about attending a shorter Mass. It's about attending a Mass where people participate (we do sing sometimes too); the priest respects the people and vice versa; there's quiet time for personal prayer and reflection, and the whole parish seems pretty happy. When I've attended one of the All Saints masses over the past year, I can feel the tension and the helplessness. Several people have told me they go to All Saints but "ignore what's going on" and do their own praying during Mass. Each his own, but I don't think that is what Mass is supposed to be.
From the weddings, funerals and baptisms that i have been to from this parish only 1 wedding has been at St. Mary's and everything else has been at St. Vincents, so unless you find some concrete evidence to support your facts you probably shouldn't speculate.
As someone who occasionally volunteers in the office, If you ever look at the parish's calendar there, I believe well over 90% of the weddings somewhere around 80% of baptisms occur at St. Mary's. I think Funerals are a bit evenly split, possibly slightly more at St. Mary's. Trish could give you the exact number.
Especially when they say things you don't want to hear? When the staff tries to confuse you with facts and figures that don't line up with your own beliefs, you should do what my kids used to do - plug your ears and scream at the top of your lungs "I'm not listening, I'm not listening."
Nobody should be forced to listen to facts that contradict their own comfortable beliefs.
Now, thanks to SOP and Fox News, we don't have to.
Back to a familiar theme. The flow of this discussion in the last 20 or so posts exemplifies why posting anonymously inflames differences and isolates us from our more respectful natures. I dare say that this escalating path to duking it online would not occur if the poster were speaking to a 'person' as a 'person' instead of as a post. When face to face (in this case the online version) I think we tend to be more moderate, to control our more radical impulses. That in turn leads to a more productive dialog. I am frustrated by this sea of anonymous voices. I want to give you the time of day but not as the main reference to who you are. Talk to me. Don't leave me a post.
Just a follow on to my post above. I can say first hand that when someone has responded to something I've written by starting 'Bill,' my listening immediately turns on.
Anonymous 1:50 here again. Anon 9:09 said... To 1:50: if as you say you are not a member of the staff or the parish, or community then why the anonymous? Hey 1:50 dont let it out but I'm the Easter Bunny!
From one anonymous to another, geez, can you get any more snarky?
Anon 4:46 said... My exact thoughts. One doth protest too much about not being a staff member. Hmmm...
To set the record straight - I am not a staff member. It would be a difficult commute to work in Corning from out here a couple of thousand miles away.
Bill...Thank you! That is the first time I have smiled and laughed on this blog in some time. You and I may have differing views on this issue but I truly appreciate your ability to make your point (and very well at times) without pointing the finger or name calling. It is frustrating keeping all of the Anonymous' straight -- but you do it with much grace with a little bit of humor thrown it at times. Thank you for that...and for your perspective.
I'm still a Catholic even though I attend Mass in another place. Someday, when it's right, I'd like to "come home".
ReplyDeleteYou are assuming there will be a parish to come home to. If everyone leaves, like you have, what will you come home to?
ReplyDeleteRegarding the previous two comments.
ReplyDeleteDo you blame him/her for leaving a place where his/her Spiritual needs were not being met? We still have chance here, but if it comes to the worse, I would not be surprise to see an exodus to other parishes. Our Parish administration should consider that. Where we go so does our money. I AM NOT ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO LEAVE ASP but I could not blame those who do (will do) out of disappointment.
Yours in Christ,
Emily O.
Thanks, Em..I've been making the trek going on 5 years. I'm very comfortable and among good people and good friends. It will be ok..gotta do what's best for me and my family. Nobody has cared up to now so really nothing has changed.
ReplyDeleteSigh.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous 8:40- I will add you to my prayer list.
ReplyDeleteYours in Christ,
Emily
That's the end for me. Doesn't matter what I say it's never been right. Good luck everyone.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous 8:50,
ReplyDeleteI understood what you meant in you first (second on this post). I was just giving you a possible reason for him/her leaving. Don't give up on us, pray with and for us, and maybe together we can prevent others from leaving by showing we do care about them.
Yours in Christ,
Emily
Just to let everyone know, Providence Housing is not going to put "Senior Housing" on the Northside. It is subsidized housing for who ever qualifies.
ReplyDeleteLook at the website and see for yourself. Write them a letter as well. Who thinks having three subsidized housing complexes within 2 miles is good for the Northside of Corning? I don't. That's what will happen. You've got the old Meadowbrook apts., Providence House and Northside Blodgett has a good chance at becoming the same. Website is below:
http://www.providencehousing.org/
The previous post is exactly right, check out the "senior" or "senior low income" housing in Corning, Bath, & Hornell. This provides an opportunity to recruit others to your cause and swell your ranks.
ReplyDeleteNow pass the ammunition & stand up & fight. They have not listened to you so far and actually ridicule SOP on your own blog. Raise some $$, hire a lawyer, go public with your inconsistencies & half truths, question the zoning, etc.
Class of 69
And let them know exactly what you are doing...
ReplyDeleteWhen SOP is ready to raise money, put up a link on this site. We're ready to donate.
ReplyDeleteWe are also ready. Attended both meetings and the dinner and dialogue have become much more informed of the REAL situation. Thank you SOP!! Let me know where we can send our contribution.
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I want to help in any way possible. Thank you again for all you have done and all you continue to do.
I would like to know what ideas have been presented to the Parish that will help close the budget gap. I have seen none. You have done well bashing Dean, Cory, Trish, the Parish council, the Finance Committee, the Facilities Committee and others but you have never once presented any plans to help save the parish.
ReplyDeleteI see that you're so desperate that you're scaring people with garbage about subsidized housing now. Way to play the "fear" card. You guys remind me more and more of Tom O'Brien and Sylvia Huber every day.
ReplyDeleteI understand the anger--on both sides. But there will not be a repeat of yesterday. If it starts to escalate, I will turn on comment moderation again. Keep it civil.
ReplyDeleteWhat? No bashing staff who have a direct link to the state of the parish but we can bash 2 people who are not involved in the issue? Now that's fair play.
ReplyDelete9:47 Plans to save the parish must begin with:
ReplyDelete1) new leadership
2) new leadership
3) new leadership
If the Bishop is wise enough to select a leader who will bring humility, compassion and strength to the position, then we begin the process of:
1) Forgiveness
2) Forgiveness
3) Forgiveness
We cannot move forward without these two elements. We then turn to Almighty God and, through the healing power of the Eucharist, we
1) Seek the lost
2) Seek the lost
3) Seek the lost
On the contrary, the SOP group has presented ideas for financial solvency but the ideas have fallen on deaf ears or have been ridiculed or outright rejected by administration. The Sunday presentation at Union Hall presented a yearly plan that would not only increase revenue but more importantly would begin to renew community to SVdeP.. Maybe that is why the blog now has people wanting to donate. Donations I fear will not come with the present situation in place in the parish. Senior subsidized housing is fact not fear.
ReplyDelete@ 10:06...
ReplyDeleteSorry, but in the presentations Bill clearly stated that the funding route used by PH prohibited designation of StV property as solely senior housing. The funding would not allow for delineation on any criteria.
So, housing for senior citizens who are on a fixed, low income is a bad thing? What happened to taking care of the less fortunate?
ReplyDeleteSo, housing for God and His people, who are humble and powerless, is a bad thing? What happened to taking care of His lambs?
ReplyDeleteThere is still St. Mary Church.
ReplyDeleteWe do have a home for His lambs. Less than five minutes up the road--St. Mary's.
ReplyDeleteAnd there is still plenty of other sites for senior housing, including the middle school just a block away.
ReplyDeleteEveryone who wants subsidized housing next to them or across the street raise your hand.
ReplyDeleteI have a question about spiritual needs not being met? We still have masses being said by the priests. What more could they do to meet your spiritual needs? For those who have commented that they have moved on, and no one ever cared, did you expect someone to come running after you to find out why you chose to go to another church. Everyone has the freedom to attend mass where they feel comfortable. I wonder if you ever decide to "come home" if the parish you are now attending is going to find out why you have choosen to leave them! I doubt it but I don't think it shows that no one really cared anyway.
ReplyDeleteAmen, 1:43 PM.
ReplyDeletePeople just seem to feel they have a right to their little church thats walking distance away. Maybe they should go over to Africa and walk an hour to mass every week to gain a little perspective.
you stated that "Everyone has the freedom to attend mass where they feel comfortable." But that as we all can see is not true, the majority of parishioners are more comfortable with St. Vincent's and if the sale continues that will no longer be an option. Also yes someone should have gone running after those who have left and tried to better meet their needs, but as was stated earlier they must not care.
ReplyDeleteJennifer
How every cruel and callous to say that Catholics who worked and sacrificed to build a church in their community have no right to it. If you are so bent on making Catholics get in the car to attend mass, perhaps we should all just head an hour or so north and attend the cathedral. That way we would all be equal, right?
ReplyDelete1:52 If people don't take their name off the parish registry, how is anyone to know they are not attending mass any more? And no, more people attend St. Mary's every week than St. Vincent's, so you could easily argue that they are more comfortable at St. Mary's.
ReplyDeleteYou have no more right to demand a bankrupt church stay open just because you gave money (or lack thereof) to keep up the building, than you do having a say in where your local Wegmans is just because of the fact you gave money to it. Thats just the way life works.
ReplyDeleteDear Bloggers,
ReplyDeleteA just want to point out some things:
1. SOP did present various ideas for financial solvency but no one listened because (at least in my opinion) they had their minds already made.
2.Taking care of the less fortunate is not the problem here, it is the fact that the information provided is misleading and no one should be asked to make a decision based in half-true information.
3.Regarding us trying to save our little Church, St. Vincent has a better campus than St. Mary's. Now how would you feel if the story was reversed and they decided on selling St. Mary's which is located in prime real estate? I bet there would be an uproar.
4. Regarding people spiritual needs...do you really think that Sunday Mass is enough? Are we truly that apathetic to other individuals needs? No one is expecting to have someone running after them but just the fact that people are leaving should be enough to make us examine our own actions.
5. And finally, I've been to Africa and South America and the people don't travel hours to get to church...THE PRIEST does!!! I have fond memories of my mission trip to Honduras when I spent 14 hours with the missionaries and the priest stopping to say Mass at 4 different sites about 2 1/2 hours away from each other.. Now that was a Sunday to remember!
Your Christ,
Emily
The parish is supposedly bankrupt, not the church. Nice try. If any church was going to be torn down it should be St. Marys. Old, tottering, in a bad neighborhood. Needs the most reparis. Could go on.
ReplyDeleteTo Jennifer,
ReplyDeleteI really don't think the majority of parishioners are more comfortable with St. Vincent's as you have a good number of parishioners who already attend St. Mary's Church. And did you go and ask those that you know who left, why? Don't you think that it is also your responibility as a parishioner of ASP to find out why others are leaving? It is not just the job of the staff.
If it is even true the reason more people attend SM is because they have more masses there. Duh. SV has two Sunday masses. SM has three.
ReplyDeleteWhen you talk majority of parishioners, you are talking majority of ASP, not the separate churches. Duh.
ReplyDeleteYes as a parishioner we should all seek those who have left but my part only goes so far, i can not change the thimgs that the administration can. If i could we would not be in this situation.
ReplyDeleteJennifer
It is the STAFF that should be asking former parishioners why they left. They should be knocking on doors and begging people to return. Don't they see what happened to Alene and Eleanor? Do they think they will be spared? The very fact that they aren't looking for the lost sheep is a validation of the bigger problem- they don't care.
ReplyDeleteIf I was one of the altar "crew" who suddenly wasn't there anymore I'd probably get a call wondering where I am. Being an ordinary individual, sitting weekly in a pew, doesn't merit anything when I'm no longer there. I doubt if he knows 1/4 of the parishioners in the congregation,other than those contributing the "big bucks". At least Fr. Lew makes it a point to know those he serves.
ReplyDeleteDeacon Dean should be going through the parish directory, calling every single Catholic who is not attending mass. He should feel responsible to know why these people are no longer part of the family he leads. He should want to know why they left and how he can convince them to return. He should be fighting for parishioners- not for their money but for their souls.
ReplyDeleteFar be it from me to usurp anybody's right to keep talking, but I'm worn out with this hashing and rehashing here. Maybe it's time to retreat to our separate camps and resign ourselves to a parish ripped apart. Let's save ourselves a lot more angst, revert to our trenches, and each camp claim victory on the rubble of an imploded body of faith that used to be ASP.
ReplyDeleteBut before I settle down for a nice holiday season in my bunker I want to get something off my chest. I hate that our parish business has been turned over to the media. And I'm really not interested in who thinks why it was important to do so. It is simply not the Catholic way that I hold dear. It is OUR business. OUR business. Please don't come back at me on this one because I know the argument and like I said, I really don't want to hear it again. I don't buy it.
So before retiring in victory, let me get on the record. I'm in the camp that notes and cares about the serious shortcomings of the administration but, forced to choose, values the community of faith more. I am in the camp that values St. Vincent's in all its meaning, but, forced to choose, values faith community more. I'm in the camp that wishes the councils were perfect and less defensive but refuses to ascribe bad intent/motivation to them. I'm in the camp that abhors any suggestion of any financial malfeasance. I'm in a camp. Not very satisfying. Wish I wasn't.
Bill
Bill, I appreciate you so much. Thank you for your heartfelt comments. I wish I wasn't in a camp,too. We are all in the parish camp, whether we agree or not. I have chosen to make my voice heard. I believe that it is a fundamental right given to me by God and endorsed by His Church. But above all, I believe we are brethren, no matter what 'side' we are on. May God richly bless you and I look forward to a time in which we can sit together in perfect harmony.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, "Holiday" season? We Catholics call it "Christmas". And secondly, if we didn't have this site to vent on, we'd have nothing. Maybe it's getting us nowhere but at least many know our feelings and sentiments and it can never be said that nobody cared. Thanks for the site, Gretchen.
ReplyDeleteI echo the thank you to Gretchen. This blog has been nasty at times, with both sides guilty. She has done a very decent job in encouraging fair play.
ReplyDeleteBill, You make good sense. After all is said and done, we end up settling for poor leadership and the consequences. Sad and sorry for all of us.
Don't agree on the media issue, Bill. Lack of transparency has gotten the Church into much trouble. (ex. Priest scandal) This is not a private divorce between two consenting people, as you state, we are a community. There would be few in this community who haven't heard that the local Catholics aren't happy with their Pastoral Admin. They see the demolishion of buildings and the For Sale signs. They see new faces in their Churches. From where I sit, it is good that these people also see that some of the Catholics are pushing back. In fact, as life-long Roman Catholic, I would be more discouraged if we didn't. Will we win the battle you make reference to? Who knows how God is using people to build up his Church? The casualities are many but I still beleive it needed to be done and have confidence that healing will come.
ReplyDeleteTo 6:59 Amen.
ReplyDeleteAt least 10,20, 30 years down the road when all that remain are vague memories and faded pictures of Saint Vincents, people will remember that the Church didn't go down without a fight.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comments Bill. There was a day when I so agreed with you about keeping things within the church and not for public distribution. However, we see the results of that in the church worldwide with the priest scandal that was finally uncovered so some action could be taken to protect the victims. So, I too am saddened that it has come to this before our leadership takes action of some kind when basic justice is violated within the church.
ReplyDeleteto anonymous at 4:28
ReplyDeleteHow do you think the Deacon or the priest knows who attended what mass or whether they even attended mass at all. We have different masses at different churches and the last time I checked we didn't sign an attendance sheet when we walked in.
Can't believe your response! I compare it to the school building principal not knowing the students. Get out from behind the desk of deceit and mingle. Sorry Gretchen for the response, but how much can we take?
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, since when does Mass attendance constitute who knows whom? With the way people find out information in Corning I find it hard to believe that the grapevine which according to a research study is 90% true, has never reached a staff person. Bottom line is , the shepherd leaves the 99 saved and goes and SEEKS the one who has left the flock or is lost. The issue is a no brainer, if it is important to you to seek and find you do it.
ReplyDeleteGood article Gretchen, on Are we Vatican II People. I just wish someone who is responsible for the lack of Vat.II would please answer some of the questions as to why the people of this parish continue to be deprived of living the call of Vatican II. It seems since there has not been another Council since Vaqt.II that the decisions of that Council are still in effect to be followed.
ReplyDelete10:20- Check the parish directory (It's only 4 years old) for names and addresses of Catholics, most of whom are not attending mass here. A good place to start.
ReplyDeleteanonymous 10:18
ReplyDeleteYou're comparinging church staff to pedophile priests? Tearing down reputations and individual's good names over dislike of leadership style and disagreements on policy/financial decisions just isn't right.
Gretchen, there's a thin line between what is going on this blog and slander/libel. The line separating this blog from cyber-bullying has already been crossed.
(In case anyone is wondering, I'm not a staff member, a member of the church, or even a Corning resident - what you publish on this blog goes far beyond the parish and the community)
cyber bullying is a strectch since noone will post who they are so all of the targets here are pretty general. And just for the record the bullying goes both ways so please lets not make it look like the supporters of SOP are the only one's at fault here.
ReplyDeleteI have to respond that a building principal has a smaller number of students to know and the students are required to be there at the same time each day if not they are marked absent. In a larger school a principal would not know who was missing without looking at the attendance sheet. Maybe someone could start walking up and down the aisles and make note of all those at that mass, then you could start making phone calls asking them why they did not attend mass!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 1:50 -- That is a ridiculous statement. The individual was merely saying that the desire to avoid scandal in the Church through keeping things hidden results in big problems, like the pedophile priest problem.
ReplyDeleteReally, stop trying to agitate.
Anonymous 11:01
ReplyDeleteI could check the parish directory and see who may not be at the mass I regularly attend but I don't know that the other people are not attending a different mass. Good job for the ushers start taking down names of people at mass and then relay it back to the staff so they can make phone calls as it was stated earlier, that it should be there job!
Thank you Gretchen. That was exactly what I was trying to say. I am amazed that anyone could conclude what 1:50 pm did. Will try to be even more clear next time. And I would ask the author of 1:50 to seek clarification next time before the strong incorrect conclusion. Sure would help keep the blog from "going over the line". We all know there are ways and there are ways.Honey is always better than vinegar as our mother's often told us.
ReplyDelete1:50 you went way too far.
ReplyDeleteThis is Anonymous 1:50 responding to:
ReplyDelete" cyber bullying is a strectch since noone will post who they are so all of the targets here are pretty general. And just for the record the bullying goes both ways so please lets not make it look like the supporters of SOP are the only one's at fault here"
The target is perfectly clear: Deacon Dean Condon. He has been clearly named again and again as the target on this blog.
I stand by my statement that some of the comments on this blog amount to cyberbullying.
In response to Anon. 4:0 regarding asking for clarification, this is the internet - what you put out there about the man is out there and will be out there for years to come. A few years from now when someone is looking up the deacon on the web and finds your comments, they won't be in a position to ask you for clarification. And this blog has already gone over the line.
To the person who made the bullying comment. I think you're way off base there. I don't see anything of the sort posted on this blog. Instead I see people trying pretty hard to be civil and to follow the guidelines that Gretchen has laid out.
ReplyDelete4:41
ReplyDeleteFurther to above, which takes into account your statement.
I think it's worth considering that many of the people who have spoken harshly about Deacon Dean probably feel bullied by him. That they have strong feelings as a reaction to that does not make them bullies.
As for it remaining a record for years to come, do you oppose that on the grounds that people are speaking anonymously? I have stated here that I have a problem with that. But otherwise, I don't understand your objection. After all, for whatever it is this blog is a record of interested people speaking to the subject at hand. Why is that not a valid record to retain?
I will agree that many comments about Deacon Dean have been very harsh, quite a few that are in my opinion unnecessarily hurtful. But people are upset and speaking strongly. Why would we want to restrict that unless it becomes libel or slander, which I am not seeing here?
Yes, I agree, Dean is the oft targeted object of this blog. But that's because in the minds of many Dean is the issue. It's the issue people want to be heard on. I don't see another way around that, nor do I think we should seek one. Regardless that I disagree with much that is posted in this blog, I do believe that people have a right to be heard.
4:41 Just curious if you have been watching the news or reading the paper in the last 24 hours. Lots of comments on our President Obama. Most not favorable. Many claiming that he is not leading the country well. Many stating that people are unhappy and demonstrated their frustration in the voting booths. Some people feel that he has lied to the country, even broken promises. Bullying? Would you suggest that we keep our observations to ourselves in all situations or just in regards to the local parish?
ReplyDelete5:30 True. I would add that when a person is in a position of authority, they need to have thick skin because they will be criticized and scrutinized. Comes with the turf.
ReplyDeleteBill- Well said.
ReplyDeleteTo 1:50: if as you say you are not a member of the staff or the parish, or community then why the anonymous? Hey 1:50 dont let it out but I'm the Easter Bunny!
ReplyDeleteMy exact thoughts. One doth protest too much about not being a staff member. Hmmm...
ReplyDeleteWow, the blog has quickly gone from useful to useless!
ReplyDeletePlease get back on line. Gretchen as you are the leader please take charge. We have to get back to our original mission "get rid of Dean", oh wait I meant "keep St Vincent’s Church open"....
Here's something that the Pro-More Buildings than We Can Afford people should keep in mind.
ReplyDeleteThe Bible only showed Jesus in a church (synagogue) a couple of times and the most memorable time he was trashing the place because they had lost their way.
The vast majority of the Bible is about Jesus walking among sinners, not holed up in a building.
I think God would be more pleased if there were no churches and the money wasted maintaining buildings that are usually empty was used to feed his sheep.
8:15 Agree to both of the missions but don't like your choice of words "get rid of Dean". I prefer to support Deacon Dean as he acknowledges that in the best interest of himself, his family and the parish, he remove himself from the position of Pastoral Administrator. In spite of the fact that he has been an unsuccessful leader, he deserves to be treated with dignity.
ReplyDelete11:27 You sell your house, live on the street and preach on the corner and I'll follow your lead. Really. Are you serious? When Jesus was walking among the sinners, there was no Church with a tabernacle housing His physical presence. We need Churches. We need a home for Jesus. Would you suggest a "Tabernacle on the Corner"? We could drive-by and wave.
ReplyDelete11:27 Oh, and we'll have funerals at the local Marconi Lodge. And baptisms, well, we can use the pool at the Radisson. For marriages, Centerway will work. The possibilities are endless. Who needs Churches? For mass, maybe we can use the auditorium at one of the high schools. Sorry to be sarcastic but what a ridiculous thought.
ReplyDeleteThat comment of no churches is typical of people who have embraced, even unknowingly, the heresy of gnosticism, the belief that matter is bad, evil, unneeded. If that were so, Jesus would not need to be present with us in Body and Blood.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I agree that Deacon Dean should be treated with respect, even when we disagree greatly with him.
And, Jesus was an observant Jew who came and worshipped in the temple according to Jewish law. He foresaw the destruction of the temple that was to come. He never advocated it. It is only in heaven, according to Revelation, that we will no longer need the temple.
Well,folks,the church was established after Jesus' resurrection and over the centuries has become so institutionalized that often the message of Jesus is totally lost.His life hopefully is a model for the message He wants lived.
ReplyDeleteI too agree that Dean should be treated with dignity and supported in acknowledging he is just not a good fit for here and move on to where he can be.
Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
ReplyDeleteBut thank you Anonymous 11:27 for proving my point exactly. The church and most of its members got so wrapped up in its ceremonies, its pot luck dinners and the trappings of religion that they've forgotten what true faith even means.
You know where I had Christmas service last year? In my livingroom. We sang songs, took turns reading the Bible aloud, talked about how God touched our lives and gave our prayers for the new year.
I felt closer to God in my livingroom in my pajamas that morning than I ever have in a church service.
Just wanted to respond to something regarding whether or not "they care" why people leave. Prior to removing our names from the membership at All Saints, we made an effort to contact Deacon Dean and the diocese regarding our concerns with no response.
ReplyDeleteOnce we made the decision to leave(after a couple of years of being unhappy) we didn't need to be called. I sent a letter explaining our concern/disappointment. I did receive a response from the diocese and they basically let me know that they don't care and are happy with the current direction of the parish. However, once again we did not receive a response of any kind from Deacon Dean. Pretty evident to me that they don't care.
The one thing that is not evident to me is who exactly will be filling the pews at this soon to be "mega church"? When everyone has left to worship other places, who will be left to support this undertaking? We have no money now so who will support this effort? No money and no parishioners but yet it is a good idea to build this complex?
Oh,and many churches of other denominations have been happy to worship in whatever space has been made available, including school auditoriums and store fronts.
ReplyDeleteBut I understand Catholics can't feel close to God unless they are surrounded by stained glass.
So I guess stained glass and religious objects of beauty are a distraction and not an inspiration. Yet God was very clear about the great care that was taken to design and build the temple, down to the tassels. "I am the LORD; I change not," we are told in the Bible. But I guess that's not good enough for all those who are dreaming of a new age, where we can cart around the tabernacle and plunk it down on a card table. If Catholic churches are so unimportant, how come our diocese's cathedral was recently renovated at great cost? If you like communing with the Lord in your jamjams, great. But you won't receive the Eucharist there unless you are a shut-in or on your deathbed, and you aren't obeying the scripture rule of assembling togehter for worship with the congregation. When did it become a sin to build a sacred house of prayer? This is all so devilish.
ReplyDeletePlease knock off the Protestant versus Catholic thing.
ReplyDeleteSorry. Didn't mean to distract from the bashing of the parish leadership to bring up substantive issues that might actually bring people closer to God.
ReplyDeleteContinue with the bashing. I'll subside.
"What thou see, that thou be."
ReplyDelete11:38 and 11:43...come on and wake up! St. Mary's will still be here. Cut the garbage about where funerals/baptisms are held. The vast majority of our funerals/baptisms/weddings all take place at St. Mary's anyway! It is this same type of irrationality that causes people to drive an extra 10 minutes to go to a church that has a mass 10 minutes shorter than the one they live 5 minutes away from. How does that make any sense?? I remember someone making a comment about this earlier. Guess its just too much Jesus time for them.
ReplyDeleteSo Anonymous 12:57, you have concrete numbers for your contention? As it gets closer to closing down a church they slowly withdraw masses and such from the targeted church. It's part of the method.
ReplyDeleteAnd St. Mary's if it ends up being the only church, will have many less weddings, funerals and baptisms. People will leave. But we know that none of you care. You will have those on a fixed income, and then where will you be in a few years? Watching them tear down St. Mary's after they buy back IHM for their new-sized congregation.
Anon at 12:57, as someone who drives from East Corning to Addison each Saturday, I can assure you that it's not about attending a shorter Mass. It's about attending a Mass where people participate (we do sing sometimes too); the priest respects the people and vice versa; there's quiet time for personal prayer and reflection, and the whole parish seems pretty happy. When I've attended one of the All Saints masses over the past year, I can feel the tension and the helplessness. Several people have told me they go to All Saints but "ignore what's going on" and do their own praying during Mass. Each his own, but I don't think that is what Mass is supposed to be.
ReplyDeleteFrom the weddings, funerals and baptisms that i have been to from this parish only 1 wedding has been at St. Mary's and everything else has been at St. Vincents, so unless you find some concrete evidence to support your facts you probably shouldn't speculate.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who occasionally volunteers in the office, If you ever look at the parish's calendar there, I believe well over 90% of the weddings somewhere around 80% of baptisms occur at St. Mary's. I think Funerals are a bit evenly split, possibly slightly more at St. Mary's. Trish could give you the exact number.
ReplyDeleteInsider.
ReplyDeleteHow can anyone believe anything the staff says?
ReplyDeleteEspecially when they say things you don't want to hear?
ReplyDeleteWhen the staff tries to confuse you with facts and figures that don't line up with your own beliefs, you should do what my kids used to do - plug your ears and scream at the top of your lungs "I'm not listening, I'm not listening."
Nobody should be forced to listen to facts that contradict their own comfortable beliefs.
Now, thanks to SOP and Fox News, we don't have to.
Wow. FOX News? LOL.
ReplyDeleteBack to a familiar theme. The flow of this discussion in the last 20 or so posts exemplifies why posting anonymously inflames differences and isolates us from our more respectful natures. I dare say that this escalating path to duking it online would not occur if the poster were speaking to a 'person' as a 'person' instead of as a post. When face to face (in this case the online version) I think we tend to be more moderate, to control our more radical impulses. That in turn leads to a more productive dialog. I am frustrated by this sea of anonymous voices. I want to give you the time of day but not as the main reference to who you are. Talk to me. Don't leave me a post.
ReplyDeleteJust a follow on to my post above. I can say first hand that when someone has responded to something I've written by starting 'Bill,' my listening immediately turns on.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 1:50 here again.
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:09 said...
To 1:50: if as you say you are not a member of the staff or the parish, or community then why the anonymous? Hey 1:50 dont let it out but I'm the Easter Bunny!
From one anonymous to another, geez, can you get any more snarky?
Anon 4:46 said...
My exact thoughts. One doth protest too much about not being a staff member. Hmmm...
To set the record straight - I am not a staff member. It would be a difficult commute to work in Corning from out here a couple of thousand miles away.
5:22
ReplyDeleteMe thinks you doth protest too far. ;-}
Bill,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much....that is the first time in a long time that I smiled and laughed while reading this blog. Thank you.
To all of the Anon's out there...The rest of us might not know who you are but someone does...post like Jesus is on your shoulder.
5:22...where exactly are you from? Are you a parishioner of ASP...traveling? Why the need to incite such emotion from so far away?
Im...just wondering...
Bill...Thank you! That is the first time I have smiled and laughed on this blog in some time. You and I may have differing views on this issue but I truly appreciate your ability to make your point (and very well at times) without pointing the finger or name calling. It is frustrating keeping all of the Anonymous' straight -- but you do it with much grace with a little bit of humor thrown it at times. Thank you for that...and for your perspective.
ReplyDelete