Cleansing Fire has posted about Providence Housing Development Corporation's possible plans for our beautiful church. The Catholic Courier published an article today about it.
There is a little bit of good news here. First, although PHDC has "entered into purchase offers" for St. Vincent's (and another parish church, Holy Rosary), to our knowledge there has not been an announcement from Bishop Clark of formal acceptance of the recommendation to sell our church.
Second, PHDC did not apply for affordable housing funding for redeveloping St. Vincent's by the February deadline.
The Courier quotes a letter to parishioners dated Oct. 30, 2010 that said, ""(The sale) will substantially reduce expenses, move the parish towards one quality worship site, and strengthen the Catholic community in our area," stated an Oct. 30 letter to parishioners from parish leaders. "It is one big step toward averting financial collapse.""
The best way to "substantially reduce expenses" is to cut staff. As most readers know, about two-thirds of collections go to paying salaries and benefits in our parish. St. Vincent's is in good shape, even though leadership has deferred maintenance for years on all church properties. Our parish has no debt. We run a deficit budget only because leadership chooses to do so.
The needed repairs and maintenance at St. Mary's hardly recommend it as a "quality worship site" at this point in time. It is in fact, the one church of the three remaining that needs extensive and expensive repairs--especially in contrast to the others.
And once again, to suggest that selling our church is "one big step toward averting financial collapse" is frankly, ludicrous. Since, as all concerned admit, it will take years for the sale to be completed, 'averting financial collapse' cannot be the major factor in selling St. Vincent's. As mentioned above, cutting staff is one way to quickly cut costs.
Also, as has been stated, the only parish property that currently brings income (other than collections) to the parish is St. Vincent's (which collects about $20,000 a year in rents from the convent).
If only parish leadership would make a good faith effort to fund raise, to balance the budget, and to plan a capital campaign for upcoming needed improvements! Again, fundraising income in our parish has dropped from 6% to 1% in the last few years.
One more thing. PHDC is still in the "process of drafting concepts for the Corning site, and details of how buildings would be used have not been finalized." Didn't the sale offer say that the property would be redeveloped for senior--and only senior--housing? Perhaps they are meaning just exactly how each building would be used. Or not used. Remember, the first offer was not for the church, but for the school and convent.
So,if I have this correct, the current leadership at All Saints is just agreeing to a sale, any sale, without a concept of what will happen after the sale. It will be senior housing of some sort but maybe not the entire property. So lets just make a quick sale here on a beutiful neighborhood church and check it off our 'to do list'.
ReplyDeleteLet them know what you think! If they are truly mulling it over. Let them know the best thing for the neighborhood is a church with a smaller senior apartment complex adjacent on the site of St. Vincent's, similar to PennYan. The apt. complex could allow for social gatherings in their kitchen/common area. Keep the money coming in and the help that is offered by Kinship from the convent. Maybe someone from the parish could use some help in figuring out how to declare the Brennan Center as historically significant to obtain funds available to preserve it. Write them letter's; offer positive ideas. Having one exclusive church on top of a hill on one far side of town is so foolish and selfish it's unbelievable!
ReplyDeletecorrection to 9:39, keep the church, build apt complex on the site of St. Vincent's School.
ReplyDeleteThe most valued employees are already gone. As far as I'm concerned, the one's that needed to go are still there- so I agree, CUT staff, starting with those who are making the most money. We don't need a full time book-keeper and an office manager. One of them needs to go- that would save $40,000/year plus benefits.
ReplyDeleteKeep praying. There is definitely hope - it is not the slam-dunk some would like you to believe it is. Providence Housing faces several hurdles: they need affordable-housing financing from NYS (which is in crisis); they need to get the zoning changed for St. Vincent's, as Corning Enterprises tries to change zoning for Northside Blodgett; and they are aware of the opposition to their plans by parishioners.
ReplyDeleteAnother hopeful sign - Cleansing Fire has a post about the Vatican ruling that three churches in MA may remain open in some capacity. Maybe the tide is turning from closing churches without serious consideration for how it affects local Catholics and the evangelizing presence in a community.
To 9:07: Yes, right from the initial presentations in August, I sensed an attitude of "Just sell, for whatever price and further St. Mary's stays for whatever cost to repair". How insulting to anyone who understands the concept of responsible stewardship, to members of ASP and how ignorant of good business practices especially in the area of selling property. Yes, Virginia, it is just dump this property, however you can. How terribly sad
ReplyDeletePerfect match..Providence house and the Deacon..neither from the area and neither gives a rip!..and yet support of his Master Plan continues to be supported..sad.
ReplyDeleteThere are few who support the plan. Mainly the lackeys.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that when the church stays there needs to be a palce for a gathering of the community for social and educational purposes. At this point all there is is St. Mary's gym, a place specifically built for sports.This is especially true if Immaculate Heart does sell. It is one thing to have a church building for communal worship but there is definitely more to a real community life like socialization anbd education and outreach to others.
ReplyDeleteWill we always haveto sit in a gym for that when there could be other options?
My guess is they don't care about the school or the gym. The master plan most likely involves the destruction of the school. Maybe they don't want to upset us with that bit until later? I bet the Bishop went through it this fall to take a look at the building as well as eating lunch with the kids. They are just like the school district in their tactics to make buildings like St. Vincent's prematurely fall apart due to neglect. Like we don't notice! What a joke. I hate when I see the steps at St. Vincent's with absolutely no grout in the cracks to let all the water and ice in. Then go over to St. Mary's, it's completely sealed and weather proofed. There are plenty qualified people in the parish who would volunteer to keep up with maintenance of St. Vincent's. As long as they are not on ladders or scaffold, volunteers can help.
ReplyDeleteThen you've got full time certified teachers at the school with graduate degrees probably making less than the youth minister. Can someone please inform me of his job description? Maybe I don't know what goes on behind the scenes and am missing something, but full time? In times like these why aren't they asking for OUR time and talent as well as the treasure? It's tough to give in the collection when you feel you have no voice in what goes on. Well, like I heard in church last week, you don't have to pay to pray! I often think of setting up a church donation account like a Christmas club; They'll get it $, just not 'till things are more open and honest around here.
I would love to see the parish use the talent and time of parishoners more. As for salaries, what ever happened to the concept that part of working for the church was some degree of in-kind services because the church was not a corporation or business that could offer full salaries according to one's degrees? I believe the school operates that way, why not the other positions in the church? Now I am sure someone will comment that the other positions are that way too. Then the question is what does the parish have to show for the amount of money we spend on salaries,other than Mary Ann's who seems to give much to the growth of the parish in the education of the youth. but I cannot say the same for the Youth Director. He writes about the vast numbers in the program and all but does it reflect participation or supposed membership? And the plans he makes and announces in the bulletin often are canceled but we never hear about that from him. So....
ReplyDeletePlease stop picking on the youth minister. Most of the programs in the parish are not very functional or helpful. The YG just happens to be the 'high profile' one that is troubled.
ReplyDeleteI only want to know what he does for his job. That is not picking. I don't make a habit out of picking on people. I see many bulletin articles, a three hour time period of youth group. That's about 8 hours work including prep time, round that up to ten for answering emails and phone calls. What accounts for the other 25-30 hours? If my money in the collection basket supports this, then I have a right to ask this question without it being called picking.
ReplyDeleteThose are good questions to ask the administrator. He is the one who hired the 'full-time' youth minister.
ReplyDeleteFor years the youth ministry position was part-time, with many more teens participating. Based on our alleged financial crisis and the low participation, it would seem only logical that people are questioning the need for a full time position. I would start with this position and then look to cut in the business department. Sorry folks, but times are tough.
ReplyDeleteI can share this is regards to the youth minister. He is currently using a tactic that is catagorized as bribing. I know for a fact that the kids were told that if they didn't come to youth group meetings, he would not give them one of his coveted Steubenville tickets. The kids have always enjoyed this trip but never had to "earn" the chance to go. This is manipulation and this is wrong. If he has to bribe kids to come to his meetings, then something is terribly wrong. What happens when he doesn't have a carrot to hold out before them? My son told me that over 140 kids are already registered for the FBI retreat this weekend, I doubt they were bribed.
ReplyDeleteKids know who cares about them. Kids are smart. They attach themselves to adults who don't have an agenda but are always there for them..at sporting events, plays and musicals, graduations and the list goes on. They see them out and about in the community. They can take their compliments as well as their criticisms. The relationships grow and continue long after their teen years.Their is no pay and the hours are countless. The only carrot in front of their noses is the reward of Heaven. No one is ever turned away. For this we are criticized?
ReplyDeleteMy 2 are attending the youth group and 9:30am is correct, the kids have to go if they want to go to Steubenville. My kids want to go to Steubenville, but, honestly, I have some reservations. I wish there was another way for my children to have this experience but we're kind of stuck between a hard place and a rock.
ReplyDeleteIf you have reservations I think it is wise to listen to them. There are other ways for youth to experience the Church and Christ besides a huge rally. Many of us grew up without such large mega group activities which showcase Religion. We had great Sodality groups (youth group) that really let us know about the faith, and Eucharist and love and service to one another. So, listen to your heart speaking, Feb.19, 7:26 p.m.,and do not be guilted into anything.
ReplyDelete