...or the spirit of taking?
Parish leadership has embarked on yet another appeal for money. Called the "Stewardship of Treasure Program", weekend masses are being disrupted in order for lay people to preach increased giving in our parish.
Next weekend, in fact, we will be called upon, during mass of course, to commit to an increase of giving. We are told adjustments to our budgets are needed so that we can give more. That's rich.
St. Patrick's is history and the proceeds from its sale are dwindling away; Immaculate Heart of Mary is for sale; St. Vincent's is on the chopping block to be destroyed for senior housing; St. Mary's needs significant repairs.
Apparently stewardship is a one-way street. This parish operates on a million-dollar budget, yet the most basic of needs are not being met. Fund raising has all but ceased. We are told a capital campaign fund can not be planned for several years.
A new parish secretary has just been hired. Was our beloved Eleanor Black asked to come back and fill that position?
Reasonable questions regarding the parish financials have gone unanswered. Leadership refuses to balance the budget--refuses to make adjustments that would bring the parish back into alignment with sound fiscal practices. Yet, we are admonished to increase our giving!
Last month I received an email from a friend involved in the FBI group that says in part: "...Sunday morning, 144 teens "fund-raised" $6,300 in less than 3 hours. Added to what they had raised in the last few months, they provided a check for $10,000 to Global Health Services to drill 2 water wells in Sierra Leone. And the parish leadership says fund-raising isn't possible? Really?"
And to add to the irony, Alene Goodman who now works for the Children's Miracle Network at Arnot Ogden, recently helped that organization's handily exceed fundraising goals for their latest Radiothon. From the article: The 2011 Children’s Miracle Network Radiothon raised a record $98,913 on from March 9-11. The annual event exceeded its previously held record of $88,000, raised in 2010.
What parish leadership refuses to admit is that parishioners have withheld giving to this parish, opting for other avenues for giving, including attending adjacent parishes, because of the insistence on closing churches, and a stubborn refusal to listen to the real needs of the people. Instead we are given vague platitudes about ensuring parish financial resources and so on.
Christ have mercy.
UPDATE: Cleansing Fire has posted about the comments on this particular blog.
...Probably hasn't even given thought to the number of elderly on fixed incomes..he thinks only about himself and his quest..bet he doesn't contribute a dime himself. My Catholic appeal envelope, as well as my weekly envelopes go right into the trash. My money funds another parish now.
ReplyDeletedid any one hear the bishop this morning on channel 3 being interviewed...if I heard it right when asked about church consolidations he said there were no more in the immediate future...did I misunderstand him...
ReplyDeleteFill me in please. Are you saying that the parish has hired a full-time employee and we were not informed? Are you also saying that this position is clerical and that we did not offer it to someone with clerical experience who was laid off for FINANCIAL reasons? If I were Eleanor Black, I would be looking for a good lawyer.
ReplyDeleteIf I were Eleanor Black I would get on my knees and thank our loving God for removing her from a toxic work environment. But if the parish did hire someone and not offer her the job first, shame on them. Nothing surprises me, though. So much for being Christ-like; it's all about building Deans's dream team. Sad.
ReplyDeleteMary
"if I heard it right when asked about church consolidations he said there were no more in the immediate future"
ReplyDeleteThat's not true. I believe that parishes in Shortsville, Clifton Springs, and Phelps will soon merge into a single parish.
Is there a link to that interview, by any chance?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you expect when we have no pastor? The DOR sent an administrator down here and relegated the priests to an inferior role.
ReplyDeleteNext week the parishioners will be asked to make a financial commitment to the parish leadership. I have yet to hear a commitment from parish leadership for keeping the church buildings in good repair or operating payroll and ministries within the amount of money that they have. Instead what we have seen is a budget that exceeds our means and buildings in disrepair with closings as the recommended solution. It is suggested that we cut our spending to cover costs but how about leading by example at the parish side. Oh yes, where is the published actuals for last fiscal year? I would recommend we focus on membership growth and feeding the flock rather the fleecing the flock.
ReplyDeleteWe're all preaching to the choir. The ones who need to hear it are in the dark about everything. Why hasn't the media picked up on this..and I don't mean the misleader.
ReplyDeleteMy 2 cents on above post:
ReplyDelete1) Was or, was not, Eleanor Black offered the position? I would really like to know.
2) According to the bulletin, on most weeks, we are meeting the budget through the regular Sunday collection. Either this is accurate as stated in the bulletin or numbers are being fabricated. Which is it?
3) There is no surprise that the FBI is successful, financially and otherwise. No explanation necessary.
4)Alene continues to have strong support; she has an endearing and charismatic personality. The fact that the Deacon terminated her will be part of his lasting legacy of destroying the parish through his poor leadership.
5) If you think things are getting better and that the dust has settled, go to mass in Addison or Campbell. The numbers of Corning-ites seeking their refuge grows on a weekly basis.
6) No more money to All Saints parish from me. The return falls far short of the investment.
Gretchen- You hit a home run on this one. Out of the park. Wish you folks well. I am with you in spirit but no longer with you in the pews, for many of the reasons you state and a few of my own.
ReplyDeleteThanks all for leaving and not toughing it out with us who stayed. Glad you are more comfortable. If I have to sit and watch my beloved church get bulldozed like I did at St. Pat's, I will blame you people who are too impatient, want everything perfect and your way all the time. In Rome or Rochester, it's obvious they don't care about all the details and nonsense that goes on here. They just care about money and numbers. Get your comfortable butts in the pews of St. Vincent's and stop giving them good reason to flatten it!
ReplyDeleteEleanor Black- I hope you are following this. It is my understanding that while employed for the parish, you received an annual performance review. You can request these through a legal process. If there is no reason OTHER THAN FINANCIAL documented in regards to your termination, get a lawyer and sue for discrimination. In the "real working world", Deacon Dean would be stopped in his tracks. It is only in this disfunctional parish, with lack of proper guidance from the Diocese, that he is permitted to remain in position.
ReplyDeleteI hope everyone ignores the rant of 8:33 pm.
ReplyDelete8:33- If you are comfortable to sit in the pews at All Saints and support the current leadership, good for you. We are all being called to help bring about the change that is so desperately needed. Perhaps my absense will bring about a greater good than your presence or vice-versa. My teen-aged children and their faith formation is my number one priority. If we are required to drive 10 miles up the road to provide them with an experience that they will embrace, I will do it. I will drive much further if necessary. The spiritual crisis in this parish is much bigger than the possible loss of Saint Vincent's; I am more troubled about the diminishing presence of the Catholic in our faith.
ReplyDeleteYes, 8:58. And the loss of SV IS a loss of the Catholic faith in our community. A very visible loss.
ReplyDelete8:33 Please explain how to remain a parishioner in support of Saint Vincent's without supporting the current administration. Do the go-alongs sit on one side and the nay-sayers on the other? To the man at the helm, it really doesn't matter. I'm sorry if you haven't figured this out but his intention from the beginning of his tenure was to build his mega-church. It matters not to him who is attending or if the collection basket is over-flowing with enough money to keep 10 churches open, because HE HAS ALWAYS DESIRED THAT THERE BE ONE CHURCH IN THE PARISH and, pending divine intervention, he will get his wish. Sorry, but I will chose to be comfortable in my new parish. Life's too short and my faith is too important. But I will continue to pray for the Church that we all love and the faith that binds us.
ReplyDelete9:08, As is IHM. Are you fighting for this beautiful, little Church as well or is this strictly about saving Saint Vincent's? To me, saving IHM is the most practical choice. We need Jesus in Painted Post, too.
ReplyDelete9:14 how long is a pastoral administrator allowed to be at the helm? How long will it take for a mega church to be built?
ReplyDeleteI see no reason why IHM should not be saved, too. There are certainly enough parishioners in the Corning-Painted Post area. As others are saying, the issue revolves around the desire of the DOR to have one church in our community. The parish administrator has been sent down here with a 'vision' and a job to do, and he is supporting the Bishop in that endeavor.
ReplyDeleteThe will to provide for these Catholic churches is missing in our leadership. The focus is on dollars, not souls. Personally, I believe if the focus was on souls the dollars would be there, too.
This is difficult to absorb. It is indeed a scandal and some would rather shoot the messengers and cover it all up. We just received tonight an email from a parishioner who accuses us of "Slandering, stalking and harassing parish workers, printing lies on flyers and newspapers, and countless other wrong doings. Most of it done in a cowardly "anonymous" manner."
Rather overdone and with no specifics, but we all understand the emotions that accompany seeing a parish destroyed from within, regardless of where one stands on the issue.
If anyone has any suggestions on how to approach leadership with the desire to save IHM as well, they would be welcomed.
To 8:58. I agree with the comments from 9:14. Deacon Dean appears to be unwilling or incapable of differentiating between those who support him and those who remain to support the parish. If the church is packed, does he interpret this as proof that he is doing a great job? How do you send the message that things aren't working if you continue to attend? Please don't suggest dialogue, we have tried that. Waste of time. It feels like the only option left is to withhold contributions or to leave.
ReplyDeleteI agree with saving both IHM and St. Vincent's. Consider how other denominations, a quarter of the size of our parish or smaller, are able to support their churches. With all the Catholics in Corning and Painted Post, we can't do the same?
ReplyDeleteRegarding the request for more money, parish leadership should provide some basic info first. Let's see last year's financial statement. What is the plan going forward? Providence Housing did not apply for funding last month, and their next chance to apply is next February. Why hasn't this been announced? How can we possibly consider not cutting positions, or at least reducing hours to part-time? People in surrounding parishes are amazed at the size of our staff.
Demoralize people and destroy their churches. Yep, that's a recipe for successful fund-raising.
8:33- If you were a parent, would you take your children to a day-care provider if you had doubts about the care they were receiving? Or to a doctor that people were constantly complaining about? Why do some people have this loyalty thing with the Church; believing we stick together and stand by, no matter what? We are a universal Church. What a beautiful gift to have wonderful options for worshipping. I WILL NOT subject my children to the current policies, politics and failings of our local parish. It is my responsibility to ensure that they receive the best faith formation I can provide and it is not here. I have too many unanswered questions, in particular with the youth leadership. If you perceive that as bailing out on Saint Vincent's, so be it. Have you considered that the attendance of so many Corning parishioners is providing the numbers to keep Saint Joseph's and Saint Catherine's off the chopping block? In this regard, maybe we are saving Churches, just not the one you are fighting for.
ReplyDeleteAs others have said, we could pack the churches and everyone tithe, and they would still shut our churches down and implement their vision.
ReplyDeleteTo the parishioner who sent the accusatory e-mail, I would say that I have felt the same way that you do. There have been times when I wondered "who are these insane, unknown, un-Christ-like people who say all of these horrible things about our church leadership?" But then I started hearing troubling things from people that I know and that I respect, who are very involved in the parish activites, I saw that both sides were telling the same things. The truth. Some people are a little more charitable and more gentle but, in the end, we are all saying that we need a new leader. In fact, even when people protest about the comments on this blog, they criticize the brutality of the comments but they never state, or attempt to prove, that they are not true. What does that tell you? If the truth is damning, sometimes it can't be sugarcoated, it just needs to be told.
ReplyDelete11:02 is correct. If we all tithe, the mega-church gets built sooner. Have you heard one person on staff state that if we were to reach a certain goal with our Sunday collection, there would be a reconsideration on the sales of Immaculate Heart and Saint Vincent's?
ReplyDeleteI didn't think so.
1:23, I agree. I specifically attended St. V's this weekend, wondering if I would hear anything about the churches in relation to fund-raising. Nope. So why increase giving?
ReplyDeleteI too rarely attend All Saints anymore. The music is like a funeral dirge (but we must sing!); the presiding priest does little more than the consecration; the retreat priest was more entertainer than homilist. My hat is off to people who can pray in spite of this - I can't so I go elsewhere.
I also noticed how a number of people talked loudly before mass and left after communion. But I thought, they are simply reflecting the lack of respect that they feel from leadership and the mass as it is now. It is not a sacred time. It is too often a show.
To 8:33pm- What is more important than finding and supporting a church that nurtures your faith? Does it really matter where the church is located? If former All Saints parishioners are finding Jesus in Campbell and Addison, be happy for them. They are just as Catholic as those who remain at All Saints. Isn't that what really matters? Do you think Jesus cares what Catholic Church you attend?
ReplyDeleteResponding to those who have left (and I mostly have too):
ReplyDeleteI think it is right to do what is best for your family. The fear is that the ABC churches could end up like All Saints and then what? After all, St. Vincent's (and St. Patrick's, St. Mary's, and IHM) used to be holy and strong parishes like St. Joseph's and St. Catherine's. The ABC churches have already been clustered. Who knows what will happen in the near future - closing one of the churches, getting a new pastor in line with Rochester? It can happen anywhere. The ABC parish is also struggling under the burden of CMA.
The best thing ABC has going for its future is the bishop is leaving in 2012.
I hope that several parishioners will consider printing out a copy of the comments on this blog and send them to the local TV station reporters, Democrat and Chronicle reporters, local newspapers in your area, Vatican Congregations, Bob Lonsberry at WHAM Radio and even a copy to Bishop Clark, Father Hart and Father Mulligan.
ReplyDeleteEmail a copy of this blog to all of the above.
With the press of a button on your computer or a 44 cent stamp, you can spread the truth.
There are thousands of parishioners who are outraged with Bishop Clark closing 50 Catholic schools and about 35 parishes. Danny Wegman is also outraged and stopped the flow of big money to the diocese.
The "Internet" is more powerfull than Bishop Clark.
No more secrets in the Diocese of Rochester.
I'm not so crazy about getting the message from this particular blog to the media but this is what I would like to see front-page, bold font: LOCAL CATHOLICS LOVE THEIR TRADITIONAL FAITH! AND THEIR TRADITIONAL WORSHIP SITES! THEY CLING TO THEIR UNIVERSAL CHURCH DURING A LOCAL AND DIOCESEAN LEADERSHIP CRISIS.
ReplyDeleteMark
I can understand the urge to leave, and that is a personal decision, you do what you think is best.
ReplyDeleteBut I ask you not to. Instead might I suggest staying and be a pebble in their shoe. Our problem as "good" catholics we tend to not want to cause a fuss or be perceived as mean. Well, Jesus wasn't always nice, and now is a kick the table over and clean out the temple with a bullwhip moment. Though, I don't suggest anything so dramatic.
Try these things: Arrive early for mass, genuflect to the tabernacle, and pray the rosary or similar, or just with purpose before mass begins. Even if this makes your head hurts, do it, their heads will explode as they really don't like people praying in church. Women, consider wearing a chapel veil. Men and women dress yourself and your family soberly and plainly. Don't hold hands during the Our Father...it's not in the rubrics and we're already in communion with each other and the Angels spiritually you are. Shake hands at the Sign of Peace, but don't make a big show of it. At Communion Genuflect and receive on the Tongue. Pray the three Hail Marys at the end of mass and pray one for them. These are all items that make them crazy, but are fully acceptable and ENCOURAGED by the Church and the Holy Father.
The Deacon actually preaches the best commentary on turning the other cheek...in summary: The reason to turn the other cheek is not to be meek and a door mat. no. In Roman society you backhanded a slave to put them down. Turning the other Cheek after the first blow forces the master to hit the slave with the face of their hand and therefore like an equal. Turning the other cheek becomes an act to force the other person to acknowledge your equality and your legitimacy. I agree. By forcing the double take, we force them to acknowledge our existence as well. I say "Power to the People," up the Counter-revolution!
Mark- So true, so true.
ReplyDeleteAlso, pray the prayer to St. Michael after mass or whenever you pray:
ReplyDeleteSaint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.
Capt Tom, you are asking us to behave like Catholics. What a novel idea!
ReplyDeleteIn Irondequoit, a group is trying to save St. Thomas the Apostle Church. I've heard that people pray to save it by praying the rosary in the church every morning and evening. It would be wonderful to see people praying before Masses at St. V's, at a minimum.
ReplyDeleteat Anon 2:30pm
ReplyDeleteShocking isn't it? It has become radical and extreme that which is really just being true to our traditions.
Susan,
Did the folks saying the rosary have to get permission, is the Church unlocked during the day (ours aren't except on Sunday) and what was the reaction from the powers that be?
There were two sisters who lived on the south side of town. Upon their death a large amount of money was bequested to the parish. (It was said to be in excess of $400,000.) The money was given with the stipulation that only the interest be used. The principal was to remain untouched. I have been to the meetings for the roll out plan and been to the community meetings and have not seen this in any of the financials. Can anyone clear this nagging question as to 'where has all the money gone'?
ReplyDelete5:12- The accusation that money MAY or MAY NOT have been mishandled warrants a response from our finance chair, who I believe is still Mr. Cassidy. This rumor can, and should be, addressed expediciously.
ReplyDeleteThis Sunday is "commitment Sunday" at ASP. If we decide to attend mass there this weekend, we are asked to sign a commitment card, I believe.
ReplyDeleteWhether or not you still attend ASP, I think this weekend would be a great opportunity for everyone to attend mass at either St. Mary's or St. Vincents and when you get a commitment card in your hands, instead of indicating a dollar amount perhaps you can write something like the following...
"While giving alms may sometimes require contributing what has been earned through human labor, the gift of oneself is of greater value. After all, the debt incurred by sin wasn't paid in the currency of the world but in the flesh of Christ." (Page 10 from The Little Way of Lent by Fr. Gary Caster,Servant Books.)
If you worship elsewhere, perhaps you visit ASP this weekend and make a statement like this or something shorter on a commitment card. I know it might be uncomfortable and you might get absolutely nothing out of Mass but then, it's Lent. And, as my Mom used to say, "Offer it up!"
Remember also, if you are looking for somewhere to give, you can contribute to the SOP Legal Fund at Savingourparish.com. Perhaps you worship elsewhere -- but by giving a little there, you too can help save SVdP.
Good luck trying to get a straight answer from the perpetual chair of Finances. My experience with asking him a question for clarification at a D&D meeting was a condescending remark followed by a long monologue which did not even come close to an answer to the question. Unfortunately I have heard the question regarding the donation being asked from more than one member of the parish so it does warrent an answer
ReplyDeleteMary, good idea!
ReplyDeleteCPT Tom, it's an interesting situation in that St. Thomas the Apostle is not officially "closed." However, no masses are said there (except for the occasional funeral mass). Some people still have keys to the church and keep it open. Their group is waiting for their case to go before a Vatican panel - could be any time now.
For us, well, we could pray before Sat. or Sun mass.
9:17 Then go directly to the top. I too have heard about this bequest but have thought it was another "let's get Dean" rumor. He should be able to provide a simple "yes or no" answer. After all, there should be a paper trail of a $400,000 bequest but proving that it had restrictions could be more difficult. Honestly, I wouldn't waste my time unless you have proof.
ReplyDelete5:12:Why would someone leave that much money to the church and state that only the principal could be used? What good is a bequest if you can never use it to benefit the church? I don't believe this is factual.
ReplyDeleteIt is my understanding that the proceeds from the sale of Saint Patrick's were restricted for capital improvements but have been needed and used for other purposes. When there is not enough money from the collection to meet payroll, it has to come from somewhere. Bills need to be paid.
ReplyDeleteSusan- All Saints parishioners would never be permitted to enter a closed church to pray!!!! We would be told that there are "liability issues". Kind of like the fact that you can't borrow a table or chairs from the parish for a family event, You will be told that someone could fall out of the chair or tip over the table and sue the Diocese. Yet, if you skip on over to one of our neighboring faith communities, you can borrow what you need. I was told that someone once tripped on a banana peel on a church step, sued the Diocese and won a settlement and now they think we are all a bunch of monkey's who will sue on a whim.
ReplyDeleteIf you ask the parish for a reasonable request to pray in the church, I doubt you would be denied. Why assume this if you haven't even asked. I would join you as I'm sure others would. Let's pray for our church and parish.
ReplyDeleteActually the parish can be quite accommodating during the week and lately they are even more willing to please. Could be all the pressure on them is having an effect.
ReplyDeleteThe not having the churches unlocked during the day is worse as it is impossible to visit our Lord and to pray in a moment of crisis before him or the statues of the saints. Can't even light a candle either (supposedly fire liability!).
4:05 AM How would finding $400,000 be a waste of time?
ReplyDeleteSeems to be the talk of the hill. Paper trail would include a copy of the will, next of kin or contacting the attorney who served as execotor.
2:33 I don't think the assumption is that there is $400,000 to find. I think the accusation is that it can't be found. Big difference. Good luck finding a copy of a will from 2 sisters who may have left a huge sum to the church. It's got to be around here someplace... I'll dig under my cushions on the sofa...This is really quite ridiculous and bloggers would be better off to stick to issues that are based on facts.
ReplyDelete2:33...do you know for a fact that it is untrue when the names of the Sisters who left the bequest is common knowledge to a great deal of people...and I think it was three sisters not two....
ReplyDeleteThe bequest was many years ago, from the Eick sisters, Evelyn and Florence, I believe. The stipulation was that the money was restricted for Saint Mary's, I believe. But this was before the churches were merged, so if the money was used for "All Saints", then the argument would be that Saint Mary's is part of All Saints. So, can we move on to another topic.
ReplyDelete10:22...are you suggesting that we don't need an accounting on this amount of money...most of us living in the "real" world have to work out some sort of system on where we spend our money... for our own peace of mind and budget....is ASP exempt from that?
ReplyDeleteThe Diocese audits the finances of the parish on a regular basis. If a $400,000 bequest was mismanaged,don't you think somebody would have figured it out?
ReplyDeleteWe don't hear answers from letters to the Bishop on the status of closings etc...so....nothing would surprise me anymore about our parish
ReplyDeleteThe bishop lets ASP run a deficit budget year after year. Not exactly sound fiscal practice.
ReplyDeleteIf we run in a deficit budget all the time then where did the big bequest go if it transferred to ASP. Also, our Finance Head has been in that position since Jesus was a Baby....aren't there term limits?? Should be....Parish Council has term limits....Our President etc do....why not Finance??? Can you answer that..
ReplyDeleteASP does NOT run a deficit...its another lie. Annually since 2005 the finace people have stated the parish has a huge deficit every year but for the fact that donations & bequests saved the day and created a profit. As a former parish finance chairman donations & bequest are normal income items in every parish. The levels vary from year-to-year but can be reasonably expected as income annually. In fact bequests are a standard income line on the required annual report to DOR. Begs the question why ASP has not published their results for FY2010 yet?
ReplyDeleteSt.Vinnies '69
According to DOR guidelines (see here: http://www.dor.org/tasks/sites/home/assets/File/planning/Finance%20Council%20Policy%20December2004.pdf) terms of office for finance council members are "five years, renewable once...Council members should not be eligible to serve again until one year after completion of their last term."
ReplyDeleteSo, the question that needs to be answered is: Has Mr. Cassidy served his 10 years? If so, he needs to be thanked for his years of service and then he needs to go. Simple as that.
ReplyDelete