Now is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It won’t last forever. We must take it or leave it. – C.S. Lewis
Friday, October 1, 2010
Getting answers
Parish leadership has put up a new Q&A page. Several important questions are asked and answered.
So it's not really about being able to afford two churches, not really. Wouldn't it have been more productive to discuss the pros/cons of keeping two churches/campuses, instead of focusing almost entirely on the financial picture? I'm interested in what others think about this.
Deans states that they are finalizing the input of parishioners. This troubles me because only about 300 out of 1400 regulars came to the small group meetings. Why hasn't a survey been done? A majority of parishioners will not attend a meeting, as demonstrated. This is too big a deal to not do everything possible to get as much feedback as possible. Do it at mass! We've done surveys from the pews before.
People have had every chance to be listened to. If they blew off the meetings, they have no one but themselves to blame. I'm tired of people whining because they can't have their way. We are moving in the direction that is best for the parish. If people aren't on board, they can join the others who would rather abandon their church when they don't get what they want.
Anonymous 10:03 "We are moving in the direction that is best for the parish." According to whom is this the direction that is best for the parish? That is the fundamental question. I do not agree at all that this is the direction that is best for the parish. Who thinks it is?
I do not. And it seems that a large group of lifelong (as well as recent) parishioners do not either. I think anonymous 11:52 asks a good question: Who does think that this is the direction that is best for the parish?
Anonymous 10:03 "If people aren't on board, they can join the others who would rather abandon their church when they don't get what they want." We are not abandoning our Church. We are "abandoning" a faulty vision and poor leadership. There are people who are staying because of their loyalty to their church - where they were baptized, married, baptized their children, received the Holy Sacraments - but with the sale of St. Patrick's and the impending sales of St. Vincent's and IHM, and with poor leadership, why stay? We can be good and faithful Catholics in other parishes.
Running away never solves the problem. To all those people who don't go to mass here, wait until you need a wedding, a baptism or a funeral, then you'll be knocking on the door.
Nope - I will be graciously welcomed at Addison, as I already have been. I have not be judged, demeaned, insulted or mocked by the parish leadership or staff. I have signed up there and people have welcomed me along with Fr. Pat and Fr. Erb. The only thing I do miss are the people I was with at Mass in Corning. Jesus told the disciples that if they were not well received to go to the edge of town and shake the dust off their sandals. I am shaking off the dust of the parish leadership and staff. There is a huge spiritual difference between running away and moving on!
Good people in Addison and Campbell. Good people in Corning, too. Great leadership in Addison and Campbell. Wish I could say the same for the leadership in Corning. Not one person has called to see why I'm not at Mass there or what's happened to my my contributions. Maybe they can form another committee to investigate.
So, let me understand this. If Deacon Dean leaves, you will come back? What if he is replaced by someone else who you think is a "poor leader"? Or better yet, What if Deacon Dean is transferred to the ABC parishes? Like I said, you can only run so far. Sooner or later, it gets old. Maybe part of the problem can be found in the mirror.
It is true that priests and deacons come and go. It's perhaps the most important reason why the people of the parish need to make the critical decisions. Fr. O'Connor, when he headed the ABC parishes, told his parishioners just that - it was THEIR parish. They have a tradition of running things. Father Conners seems to be carrying on that tradition.
4:42- You are so correct. When my family left, it was painful, it was sad. For several weeks we mourned because we missed the people we had sat in the pews with for years. But as time has passed, more and more of these same people are in the pews with us again and Saint Josephs in Campbell feels like home. If someone wishes to call this running away, so be it. I call it practicing my faith in an environment that feels loving, accepting and 100% Catholic. To answer the above post, if Deacon Dean were to be reassigned, I will pray about whether or not we shall return. I am open to wherever God calls us to practice and grow in our faith.
Never said I'd come back. However, I would not feel uncomfortable about attending Mass in Corning when I choose to. If he ever goes I suppose you'll pack up and follow the shepherd of the All Saints flock like a lost sheep.
I'd like to know who on these anonymous blogs that complain about All Saints actually still attend All Saints on a regular basis. It seems that the majority of people that comment on here attend different parishes. Well then why are you commenting and complaining about a parish you no longer go to? If you are happy where you are just stay where you are. Quit trying to stir up anger and criticism about something that doesn't even affect your life anymore. What a waste of your time, you are only perpetuating your unhappiness. Go find somewhere that makes you happy, stay there, and leave the people at All Saints to deal with their issues--and move on.
No, I won't follow him like a lost sheep. I will stay and support the next leader, whoever it is. I happen to believe that the Holy Spirit knows better than you or I and that he guides those who answer the call.
6:56- I am one of the complainers you refer to. What you don't appear to understand is how difficult it is to move on when the Church I grew up in, raised my children in and hoped to be buried in, is no longer the place where I feel comfortable to worship in. Unlike some,I want to come back. I have even tried but I feel like I need to go directly to confession following some of the masses. I am distracted and have ill thoughts when certain things happen during the mass. Maybe this is my fault but I have honestly tried to push these feelings aside and just pray and worship but I can't. I finally decided that God was telling me that I needed a break. Please don't condemn the people who have left. I don't think that anybody wanted to.
TO 10/03/2010 4:05 pm The words "wait till you need a wedding, a baptism or funeral" sound like now we are being threatened because we don't agree with the people trying to sell St Vincent's. It is so sad that it has come to this. will pray for you.
One thing we can say for sure--there is a great deal of pain and anguish happening here. I believe that the upcoming week of Adoration in the parish can have a healing effect. I would invite everyone to spend some time praying in the presence of the Lord. Those who have left, this parish would benefit greatly by your presence and prayers, even for an hour. The same for those who have stayed. Can we not come together and watch with Him for an hour? The signup information is in the weekly bulletin or at SavingOurParish.com.
I feel I have to point out something many of you who choose to worship in another parish may not have thought of. Truly, you are correct that St. Catherine's in Addison is a warm and welcoming place. I know. My family and I were parishioners there for several years even though we lived in Corning. My children made their first communion with Fr. K and Fr. O'Connor as well as served on the altar and attended religious education. My older sons were confirmed there. When we moved back to Corning after a short time away for work, we felt the calling to return to the parish of our own town. My point to you who have left is that the next pastor assigned to Addison or Horseheads may be completely different and then where will you go? Where will the cycle end? I am not implying that my family's path is the only one, but please consider how you will handle an upheaval in the parish you currently attend?
Kathy- You are correct- Addison offers a warm and welcoming place to worship. There is peace and simplicity. Down the road, if there are changes in leadership that provide for a different environment, either here or there, we will pray for guidance. In the meantime, this is our refuge. Away from the distractions of a broken, divided parish, we can worship and pray in peace. And even though we are apart, we do pray for the All Saints Parish.
So it's not really about being able to afford two churches, not really. Wouldn't it have been more productive to discuss the pros/cons of keeping two churches/campuses, instead of focusing almost entirely on the financial picture? I'm interested in what others think about this.
ReplyDeleteDeans states that they are finalizing the input of parishioners. This troubles me because only about 300 out of 1400 regulars came to the small group meetings. Why hasn't a survey been done? A majority of parishioners will not attend a meeting, as demonstrated. This is too big a deal to not do everything possible to get as much feedback as possible. Do it at mass! We've done surveys from the pews before.
ReplyDeletePeople have had every chance to be listened to. If they blew off the meetings, they have no one but themselves to blame. I'm tired of people whining because they can't have their way. We are moving in the direction that is best for the parish. If people aren't on board, they can join the others who would rather abandon their church when they don't get what they want.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 10:03 "We are moving in the direction that is best for the parish."
ReplyDeleteAccording to whom is this the direction that is best for the parish? That is the fundamental question. I do not agree at all that this is the direction that is best for the parish. Who thinks it is?
I do not. And it seems that a large group of lifelong (as well as recent) parishioners do not either. I think anonymous 11:52 asks a good question: Who does think that this is the direction that is best for the parish?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 10:03 "If people aren't on board, they can join the others who would rather abandon their church when they don't get what they want."
ReplyDeleteWe are not abandoning our Church. We are "abandoning" a faulty vision and poor leadership. There are people who are staying because of their loyalty to their church - where they were baptized, married, baptized their children, received the Holy Sacraments - but with the sale of St. Patrick's and the impending sales of St. Vincent's and IHM, and with poor leadership, why stay? We can be good and faithful Catholics in other parishes.
Running away never solves the problem. To all those people who don't go to mass here, wait until you need a wedding, a baptism or a funeral, then you'll be knocking on the door.
ReplyDeleteNope - I will be graciously welcomed at Addison, as I already have been. I have not be judged, demeaned, insulted or mocked by the parish leadership or staff. I have signed up there and people have welcomed me along with Fr. Pat and Fr. Erb. The only thing I do miss are the people I was with at Mass in Corning.
ReplyDeleteJesus told the disciples that if they were not well received to go to the edge of town and shake the dust off their sandals. I am shaking off the dust of the parish leadership and staff. There is a huge spiritual difference between running away and moving on!
Good people in Addison and Campbell. Good people in Corning, too. Great leadership in Addison and Campbell. Wish I could say the same for the leadership in Corning. Not one person has called to see why I'm not at Mass there or what's happened to my my contributions. Maybe they can form another committee to investigate.
ReplyDeleteSo, let me understand this. If Deacon Dean leaves, you will come back? What if he is replaced by someone else who you think is a "poor leader"? Or better yet, What if Deacon Dean is transferred to the ABC parishes? Like I said, you can only run so far. Sooner or later, it gets old. Maybe part of the problem can be found in the mirror.
ReplyDeleteIt is true that priests and deacons come and go. It's perhaps the most important reason why the people of the parish need to make the critical decisions. Fr. O'Connor, when he headed the ABC parishes, told his parishioners just that - it was THEIR parish. They have a tradition of running things. Father Conners seems to be carrying on that tradition.
ReplyDelete4:42- You are so correct. When my family left, it was painful, it was sad. For several weeks we mourned because we missed the people we had sat in the pews with for years. But as time has passed, more and more of these same people are in the pews with us again and Saint Josephs in Campbell feels like home. If someone wishes to call this running away, so be it. I call it practicing my faith in an environment that feels loving, accepting and 100% Catholic. To answer the above post, if Deacon Dean were to be reassigned, I will pray about whether or not we shall return. I am open to wherever God calls us to practice and grow in our faith.
ReplyDeleteNever said I'd come back. However, I would not feel uncomfortable about attending Mass in Corning when I choose to. If he ever goes I suppose you'll pack up and follow the shepherd of the All Saints flock like a lost sheep.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to know who on these anonymous blogs that complain about All Saints actually still attend All Saints on a regular basis. It seems that the majority of people that comment on here attend different parishes. Well then why are you commenting and complaining about a parish you no longer go to? If you are happy where you are just stay where you are. Quit trying to stir up anger and criticism about something that doesn't even affect your life anymore. What a waste of your time, you are only perpetuating your unhappiness. Go find somewhere that makes you happy, stay there, and leave the people at All Saints to deal with their issues--and move on.
ReplyDeleteNo, I won't follow him like a lost sheep. I will stay and support the next leader, whoever it is. I happen to believe that the Holy Spirit knows better than you or I and that he guides those who answer the call.
ReplyDeleteLike so many others who have chosen to rally around him, you just don't get it.
ReplyDelete6:56- I am one of the complainers you refer to. What you don't appear to understand is how difficult it is to move on when the Church I grew up in, raised my children in and hoped to be buried in, is no longer the place where I feel comfortable to worship in. Unlike some,I want to come back. I have even tried but I feel like I need to go directly to confession following some of the masses. I am distracted and have ill thoughts when certain things happen during the mass. Maybe this is my fault but I have honestly tried to push these feelings aside and just pray and worship but I can't. I finally decided that God was telling me that I needed a break. Please don't condemn the people who have left. I don't think that anybody wanted to.
ReplyDeleteAmen!
ReplyDeleteTO 10/03/2010 4:05 pm The words "wait till you need a wedding, a baptism or funeral" sound like now we are being threatened because we don't agree with the people trying to sell St Vincent's. It is so sad that it has come to this. will pray for you.
ReplyDeleteOne thing we can say for sure--there is a great deal of pain and anguish happening here. I believe that the upcoming week of Adoration in the parish can have a healing effect. I would invite everyone to spend some time praying in the presence of the Lord. Those who have left, this parish would benefit greatly by your presence and prayers, even for an hour. The same for those who have stayed. Can we not come together and watch with Him for an hour? The signup information is in the weekly bulletin or at SavingOurParish.com.
ReplyDeleteI feel I have to point out something many of you who choose to worship in another parish may not have thought of. Truly, you are correct that St. Catherine's in Addison is a warm and welcoming place. I know. My family and I were parishioners there for several years even though we lived in Corning. My children made their first communion with Fr. K and Fr. O'Connor as well as served on the altar and attended religious education. My older sons were confirmed there. When we moved back to Corning after a short time away for work, we felt the calling to return to the parish of our own town. My point to you who have left is that the next pastor assigned to Addison or Horseheads may be completely different and then where will you go? Where will the cycle end? I am not implying that my family's path is the only one, but please consider how you will handle an upheaval in the parish you currently attend?
ReplyDeleteKathy- You are correct- Addison offers a warm and welcoming place to worship. There is peace and simplicity. Down the road, if there are changes in leadership that provide for a different environment, either here or there, we will pray for guidance. In the meantime, this is our refuge. Away from the distractions of a broken, divided parish, we can worship and pray in peace. And even though we are apart, we do pray for the All Saints Parish.
ReplyDelete