Cardinal Ouellet is the new head of the Congregation for Bishops, appointed by the Vatican. Here's a short article about him, and here's a snippet:
From the article: The cardinal, further, said the Church needs what Gyapong called a “new intellectual dynamism” to “recapture the spirit of Christianity” and “create a new Christian culture.”
“We need intellectuals for that, theologians, philosophers, Christians who really believe in the Gospel and share the doctrine of the Church on moral questions,” he said. “We have suffered from this mentality of dissent” that is “still dominating the intelligentsia.”
“There is no real discipleship there, real discipleship,” he added. “The discipleship that is emerging is from those who believe and who really love the Church.”
Send up your prayers of support for him!
In other news we got a hat tip from Cleansing Fire, another blog in the DOR that is well worth reading. They've been chronicling parish issues around our diocese for a long time, including Catholic school issues.
And while we're on it, here's a blog post from Fr. Longenecker at Standing on My Head about Why Catholics Should Build Beautiful Churches. We sure have some beautiful Catholic churches here in All Saints Parish . . . for now.
And get ready to commemorate the 100th birthday of Mother Theresa. Don't you miss her?
"So a Catholic Church that is beautiful and built to last is a witness to the incarnation. It's beauty also represents the sacrifices of time, talent and treasure to build such a temple fit for God." - Fr. Longenecker, Why Catholics Should Build Beautiful Churches
ReplyDeleteGreat read. Perhaps we should recommend that link to the All Saints Parish Webpage.
Teresa of Avila...you wrote "We sure have some beautiful Catholic Churches here in All Saints Parish...for now."
Don't you want to fight for those churches? We can't just give up. Someone in my "small group meeting" said that this (the selling of SVDP) must be what God wants. I am sure the recorder for the meeting wrote that down on the big sheets of paper to carry back to Parish Admin. so they can all nod their heads in agreement. God cannot possibly want to see one of his churches torn down.
Perhaps we need to have a "Prayer Walk" around St. Vincent Campus after the 4 PM or 9:30 AM Sunday Mass -- praying for its future.
Teresa of Avila...I want you to be able to say that those beautiful church are here...for now AND generations to come.
Let us pray and ask God what it is He wants us to DO to save HIS CHURCHES here in the All Saints Parish.
Praying with you, Mary!
ReplyDeleteAmen!!!! I don't want to see our churches sold either!! A prayer walk would show unity that I don't think Deacon Dean would expect. Enough with the small groups!! It's all white wash anyway.
ReplyDeleteI have created a Facebook Group (this link should take you there):Saving All Saints Parish in order to reach out to some that might not attend meetings or are aware of the deadline, to put a road block up to any drastic changes.
ReplyDeleteThe group is open for all to post on the wall and to send out to friends.
Rich, What a great idea!
ReplyDeleteRich, you might want to explain to people, like myself, how to join Facebook. I've never been on Facebook and have no clue how it works. Could you put a post or something on the front page of your group that explains that? We'll link from the website and the blog to your group, too.
ReplyDeleteTo join, go to http://www.facebook.com and follow the instructions for creating an account. The process is fairly user-friendly, and I believe can be done in 10 minutes or less, depending on how detailed your initial account creation is based on your preferences.
ReplyDeleteIf you need help, I can assist; but I am no means a power user!
Email me: Rich Collins and I will help as much as I can.
Awesome Rich!!! A facebook page is a great idea!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you. TOGETHER we will be heard.
ReplyDeleteI went to a meeting this weekend. No surprises. This is a done-deal. My small, and I mean small, group was led by Dale Wexell. Nice enough man. He is on the school board and recently was instrumental in creating the plan to merge schools and CLOSE BUILDINGS, CFA and Northside Blodgett. Think he was hand-picked to share the good news of the sale and future destruction of Saint Vincents? It really is a small world.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous (Aug 23, 5:13 PM)
ReplyDeleteDale W. also led my meeting. Perhaps we were at the same one. I didn't realize he was so involved in the school plan (As a mom of young boys, I sometimes live on another planet) I guess that is why he did like my comment re: "If the school vote wins and this (church) plan goes through I won't have to move out of the Northside when I become a senior, I'll have choices of where to live."
Thanks for the info.
I was thinking ,, we should all get together in front of the Churches. St.Vincents and St. Marys and Pray the Rosary together. Just a thought. Peace
ReplyDeleteDale Wexell is a nice man. A long time, faithful Saint Mary's parishioner. I wonder if he would be advocating for this strategic plan if it included bulldozers demolishing his beloved Saint Mary's Church. Just wondering.
ReplyDeleteIf Father Brennan or Father Davis told me that they had to close a Church - I may not have liked it, but because I saw them as good and holy men and because I believed they truly cared about me and the parish and because i trusted their leadership - I would have supported them. I do not believe any of these things about the current leadership. Our administrator probably believes he is all of these things - but he isn't. And he cannot see it, either.
ReplyDeleteTo above post- You are right on target. This uproar is all about the failure of Dean to gain the confidence and respect of the parishioners. He has a very small (becoming smaller) following and for reasons that are incomprehensible to me, he believes that this handful of people is enough to carry him through the storm. He is gutsy, I'll give him that. He may be "book smart" but he is not "people smart". He has been advised by the wrong people, he has chosen an agenda that is in conflict with the majority and he has eliminated key staff members. Sadly, he has cut his own throat.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts exactly to the comment above about Father Davis and Father Brennan. I have more issues with the decisions regarding staff, stewardship of resources, and respect for the parishioners and sacred tradition than the actual need to downsize churches. If such a momentous decision had to be made such as closing a church,why weren't parishioners included in this "exhaustive" determination of what was to be done. Also, it seems the focus was way more on closing churches from the start rather than staying open. People needed to know someone really cared about them in the process and it just seems things will never be the same.
ReplyDeleteSince I am watching football, I'll apply a little sports logic:
ReplyDelete* If the coach doesn't tell you the game plan, you cannot win.
* A quarterback needs to be a leader so that the line will block for him, receivers run their routes and will sacrifice the body to make the reception.
* You need to reach out to the fans: the die-hard, the season ticket holders and the 'fair-weather Johnnies:' if they do not back the team, they will not fill the stadium and they will not buy the merchandise.
* Sometimes the owner and manager need to realize sometimes the fans (and media) are right, and coaches need to be fired.
* Above all - YOU DO NOT PUNT ON 1st DOWN! You dig in and fight. If your 1st down play fails, you hit harder on 2nd; if that falls short, you dig deep on that 3rd down play. Falling short on 3rd, you take a time out. As coach you gather your quarterback and assistant coaches, and decide if you need to punt or if you have the guts to give it a final shot.
BUT YOU NEVER PUNT ON 1st DOWN!
It's a shame our coach is sending the punter out.
Great football analogy! We sure could use a Hail Mary strategy at this point.
ReplyDeleteSports logic blogger: Incredible logic
ReplyDeleteAdministrater: You need to post this as an article- it's THAT good!
A summary of financial issues that demand addressing from parish leadership:
ReplyDelete1) Why let Alene, who Deacon Dean Condon stated was a "great employee", go after 22 years and keep the new-comer,Cory, who has no college degree, no certification and very limited experience in the Catholic Church?
2) Why post the position of a new-hire for the Life Teen mass music ministry when just weeks before stating that there was no money to keep Alene?
3) Why not invite all staff members to take a pay cut inorder to preserve "great" employees?
4) Why not inform the parishioners of the need to let "great employees" go and provide them the opportunity to donate for their salary?
5) Why do we need 2 full-time business employees?
6)How can we afford to pay the pianist over $50.00/hour?
7) Why is our maintainance staff vacuuming the Deacon's rectory each week, ON PARISH TIME?
8) Why is there no living expense budget for the Deacon's rectory?
9) Why are we not asking the parishioners why they are withholding their contributions?
10)Why is the most difficult Church for seniors to access remaining, while Saint Vincent's is being demolished?
11) Why haven't we had weekly updates on the negotiations to sell both IHM and Saint Vincents?
12) Why are we left to speculate about these and other issues?
WE DEMAND TRANSPARENCY.
excellent questions Ann and if there had been a stated process to the parishoners we would have answers to all these questions and may have been able to support this. Regarding the rush to sell SV. Who is behind this? Steve R, Dean, Brown or the Rochester folks. Must get to the papers and that will slow the sale if Roch sees the articles in the papers.
ReplyDeleteI am OK with the effort to go public with opposition to the now infamous Stragegic Plan but we better be ready to hear about how we aren't giving enough money to justify keeping Saint Vincent's. We also better to ready to explain why we think we still need Saint Vincents in light of the empty pews. How can we guarantee that people will ever start giving again? How can we guarantee that those who have left have any intention of returning? How do we know that those who have removed All Saints Parish from their wills, will ever reconsider? In actuality, we can't guarantee any of this. Until there is a change in leadership, the ship will continue to sink. How can we pull this off?????
ReplyDeleteWhat specificlaly was the reason a church that was built in 1879 is being saved over a church that was built in 1954-55? What was the reason this church that is dark and dank and cannot keep paint on the walls and whose hearting is a disaster and is difficult for elderly to climb steps,and unable to really see the altar and listen to the celebration of the Eucharist due to pillars and distance and darkness, is being chosen over a church that is accessible to elderly, whose altar is the focal point of worship without physical distraction, holds approximately 450-500 at any one time,has had much spent to get a concert type music sound in it,is bright and is not in need of the repairs the other church is. Granted maybe the SV "rectory" needs some work but has there been a cost analysis on both plants to see which would be most efficient for service to the people, not leadership?
ReplyDeleteGood questions, all. Are you attending the meetings to ask those questions? Please, please, pretty please?
ReplyDeleteIn a conversation with Deacon Dean, shortly after his arrival, he shared his "vision" of having a large facility, a mega-Church, up at Saint Mary's. He envisioned a complex with a large meeting hall and so forth. He even described how he would like to build a covered walkway to get from one building to the next. THIS WAS BEFORE WE HAD A FACILITIES COMMITTEE. This should help to clarify why we are where we are at. This is the truth.
ReplyDeleteHello.
ReplyDeleteI will jump right in and present a few proposals and thoughts to this group:
1)Change the name of this website from “saving our parish” to “tearing our parish apart more”. I think this group of anonymous people is doing as much damage if not more to our church as they feel the administration is doing or has done. To me you are not trying to save our church but remove Dean at all costs.
2)Get over the fact that Marie McCaig is gone. Although this does not make any of us happy it is done, time to move on! We need to get in back of Cory (hat and all) and support the Teen Program.
3)Go to the meetings that are going on right now with an “open” mind prepared to listen to the facts presented.
4)If there are better ideas on how to save St. Vincent’s and IHM, or to close our budget thereby preventing future layoffs then by all means present them, I am sure the facilities council, the Finance council and the Parish Council would love to hear them. Right now on this website all there are is what ifs with no solid solutions except signs on lawns and facebook pages.
5)Get involved in our church. Go to the meetings, join parish council, join the facilities council, join the finance council, send your children to ASA, play on the softball team or join the teen mass music group. Do something! The more you get involved the better the church will be.
6)And last if you can not do something that is positive for our Church in an attempt to work through the issues then maybe it is time that you did move on to another Church so that we can stop all this fighting and negativism and move forward to make our church strong and vibrant again.
To the above comments:
ReplyDelete1) Contrary to what you state, we are trying to save our parish. We STRONGLy believe that this is possible through the removal of the one who has created the division through his poor leadership. So, yes, you are right, we want Dean to leave.
2)Yes- we need to get over the fact that Marie is gone. A terrible loss. But we do not need to get behind someone who has the questionable ability to lead our kids. I sent my 2 for 6 months last year. It was a bad experience. (And one of them never had Marie McCaig for a leader)Last year over half of the kids who started the program, quit. And most only went because they had to participate for the confirmation program. So, yes,we need to move on and no, I will not support the new program. I will teach my kids at home or take them to another program.
3) I will attend a meeting.
4)The better idea has been repeatedly suggested on this site: Change leadership and the direction will change. What part of "the parishioners do not have confidence in Dean and will not support him" don't you get?
5) I can't play on the team- I'm a woman.
6) I am prayerfully discerning to join the ABC parish.
A question for 7:53am Anonymous: Personal feelings aside, can you please list the things that have been posted on this site that are inaccurate?
ReplyDelete1) My thoughts exactly to the above blog as to the comment on #1
ReplyDelete2) In regard to #2 - once again Dean's fault that we do not have a strong youth program no matter who the leader. The program was one of the strongest in the area. Still not sure why there was a need to change it. It is too late for my children,but such a shame
3) Will the people that are making the decisions to close our churches be leading these meetings? I would like to attend a meeting that Deacon Dean is speaking at so that I can see what he is thinking
4)It sounds like ideas were presented yet no one listened
)We are trying to get involved in our parish and being shot down when our ideas are to save the parish. As far as sending our children to ASA, not all can afford it, or feel that this is the best education when there are wonderful public schools in the area
6)And suggesting that those that disagree move on to another church...WOW!
My turn:
ReplyDelete1) If you think Dean is doing a great job- get behind him. The line is not very long.
2) My son went to youth group last year. He heard Cory Smith making deragatory remarks about Marie McCaig. Cory accused her of being like "Martin Luther" because Marie decided to help with the FBI. My son and my daughter will be attending the FBI this year.
3)I have no interest in attending a meeting. My mother went on saturday and told me it was not a time for sharing ideas but a time for telling the plan that has already been approved.
4)If Dean leaves and we are appointed a good, solid leader, people will give once again. Father Brennan and Father Wainwright are examples of 2 All Saints priests who were able to get people to pull out their checkbooks with a simple, heartfelt request for money. People will give ALWAYS when they trust their leadership.
5) My family has been involved in all activites for over 30 years. We have given 100% because we love All Saints Parish.
6)We only attend mass here occasionally. We are among the many who have sought refuge in the ABC parish. We hope to be back one day.
Do you all honestly think that the removal of Dean will change ANYTHING about the facilities plan? Since this has the diocese's backing (after all an organization affiliated with the diocese is proposing to buy STV), do you think they would appoint a leader that wouldn't continue with the plan? All the lay person parish councils and diocese officials have all set the wheels in motion. The bishop is ready to sign off on the deal. No matter who is appointed here, there is no turning back. Time to either support the parish and DOR leadership or move on to find a different one. It's as simple as that.
ReplyDeleteWhat a sad scenario you paint: The people have no power, the Diocese won't listen to the parishioners, bad leaders should be allowed to remain, parishioners should "get behind or get lost". Does this mentality apply to other areas of controversy? Should we all support abortion because our president does? Or should we fight to undue an injustice? I do believe that this is not as much about closing Saint Vincents and ASA as it is about the fact that Dean is so unpopular. If he wanted to cut down a tree at Saint Mary's, people would protest. He should step down.
ReplyDeleteI have heard that some All Saints Academy parents are opposed to the selling of Saint Vincents BUT are not protesting because they feel that if Saint Vincent's is gone, they have a better chance of saving ASA. Could this be true? ASA has drained the parish in recent years and is a big part of the reason why we can't afford the keep our churches. When there were a few hundred kids attending, it was a sacrifice worth making. Now is a different story. If unhappy parishioners are being encouraged to go to other parishes, likewise, should we be encouraging our parents who prefer a catholic education to send their kids to SMOM?
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Was Dean assigned here or was he hired? To whom is he accountablle for job review ?
ReplyDeleteI do not beleive it is against Dean as much as it is against the leadership team whose leader is Dean. The Councils and Faciulities Group agreed with the plan. I am not fighting to keep ST.V. open I am very concerned that a process was used that kept the members of the parish in the dark. As adult intelligent members who have a vested interest in the life of the church for education and spirituality and its future effectiveness in the community of Corning, we have a responsibility to know how the decisions were reached and what data was used to determine ST Mary's over St. Vincent's.We too are the ones expected to support financially a new plan. How many of us really give our hard earned money to something we know precious little about? All we have been told is finances say we need to close two churches. To leave the heart of a parish, THE PEOPLE, out of the process is oppression and we have enough of that already in the RC church.
In response to Chris: I don't see where Anonymous said that anything on the site was inaccuarate, just negative.
ReplyDeleteSome people have even complained about the softball game that a group of people have tried to start. Something that is a positive about the parish. Coffee and donuts have been offered after mass and only a handful of people take part. This has been that way for years. Not just under the current leadership but under many of the leaders we have had. Many years ago the coffee and donuts were offered and only a handful of people would stop. People come to church to get the credit but don't want to take the time to visit with anyone.
#2 Cory did not take over until Jan of 2010, at the beginning of the year there were a group of parents along with Alene Goodman, trying to give the teens some sort ofprogram. In an earlier blog it was state that only a few teens had helped out on mission day.CONGRATULATIONS TO THOSE TEENS AND ADULTS WHO WERE WILLING TO LEND A HAND THE COMMUNITY. Shame on parents who are setting the example to our teens and our community that Catholics only help when things are going the way they want. This day was not intended to be of value to the staff but to the people in our comnunity that could use a helping hand. By not taking part Deacon Dean did not feel the loss, only the people that could have used the help. Too many people have the attitude that if Mrs. McCaig isn't runnining it we don't have to help. What a great message to put out to our community about the Catholic church.
I agree that the McCaigs were wonderful people and did so much for our teens. Now let's give Cory a chance to build on what the McCaigs started.
A lot of people left our parish when they were upset about the McCaigs, and sent their kids to the FBI group. Did thy think about how Alene Goodman felt about that. She was working hard to keep our teen program going. Now those same people are upset because she was let go!
A suggetion was made that parishioners donate to her salary to keep her on. I am sure that the majority of parishioners do not have the funds to help of a salary for an undetermined amount of time along with benefits that she as receiving. If they do there are probably a lot of other parishioners who could also use your help.
I agree that a change in leadership would be great. I'm not sure that venting on this website is going to make "Rochester" change our leadership.
AMEN. Who are these people who are on these committees that unanimously make decisions? If they are representing the parish, why wasn't the Parish as a whole, informed of their plan until after their decision was made? Also, if they are representing the parish, they are a poor representation- their unanimous, 100% support of the facilities plan clearly does not represent the feelings of the people they should be representing. Did anyone get calls from these committee members to request input? Were surveys done to see how people felt about a facilities plan that included the closing of Saint Vincents and IHM? WE WERE LEFT IN THE DARK. Not one person on these committees anticipated the response we are seeing and said "Whoa. We better rethink this"???????
ReplyDeleteI talked with Alene about my kids not liking the new youth program. She acknowledged that the youth program was not meeting the needs of the kids and fully supported the parents who chose to support the FBI. She had nothing negative to say about the FBI and understood that kids would want to be where their friends were. What bothered her was that people were leaving the parish that she has worked so hard for. She said that she was just happy that they were doing something that got them involved in serving the community. Your implication that I shouldn't be upset because Alene was let go is way off target. My decision to not support the youth group had NOTHING to do with Alene. Alene is/was the most caring person on the staff- we all love her. But she isn't/wasnt trained to be a youth minister and would be the first to admit this.
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous 11:02am- Do you think it is right that Cory, with no credentials, remains while Alene, who had a degree and 22 years of experience was let go? If this is how the church treats people who have devoted their lives to building up the kingdom, I want no part of the church. You don't seem to be upset about this unjustice.
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous at 12:03 I did not say that I was not upset about the fact that Alene was let go. I have worked on committees with her for most of her 22 years she has been here. I just feel that bringing up the past is not going to solve the issues at hand or that Cory or anyone else on the staff is at fault for what happened. Mrs. McCaig did not have a degree either. When everyone leaves the church then he will have no other choice than to lay off some of the other staff members. Since you seem to know all of Cory's credentials could you clear something up for me what are they and how do you know them I do not recall that as being public knowledge anymore than I would know what Alene's credentials are.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at ll:18 The FBI was started because at the time we did not have a real youth group only what Alene and a group parents were trying to provide. Where a person chooses to send their kids is a personal decision that you have the right to make. The FBI is a service oriented group with no instruction on the catholic faith. That is great if that is what you have chosen for your kids, I just don't see any justice in bringing up the past as a reflection of what has happened in the last couple of months. I don't think that any of the staff had a say in who was let go and I'm sure that no matter which one of them had been let go someone would have been unhappy. They say that the pews of the ABC parishes have been filling up but not there collection basket. If all those people had continued to give to All Saints maybe none of our staff would have to be let go.
So if he let Cory go or one of the other staff members go all would be good. I would hate to be the one to make that decision
So many comments supporting Dean and Corey. If they only knew. For those speculating or guessing on how the FBI operates, guess you should attend to find out it's fulfilling the needs of the Catholic kids as well as many of their friends. Don't say you love Alene and Marie and then in the next sentence say it's time for them to get over it and move on. They have moved on and yet some of you can't accept the direction they've chosen to go. What the heck will satisfy you people? Go ahead. Back Dean and Corey and see just where that leads you.
ReplyDeleteOk- I'm chiming in on this one. There;s room for the youth group, the FBI, and whatever clubs are available for kids. All Saints doesn't have exclusive rights on programs for kids. As someone stated, the FBI is for service-so what is the problem? The YG is for religious education. There is no conflict! Why the big deal? Alene has a degree in theology. Marie has a degree in medical tech. Cory has no degree. What difference does this make? It was Dean who decided that the YM position required a theology degree- I doubt that the kids ever considered credentials. If kids want to come to YG, good for them. If kids want to come to FBI, good for them. If they want to do both, good for them. If they choose to do neither, that's their choice. People should be more concerned about what these kids are doing and less concerned about WHO they are supporting. Ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteGive Cory a chance to prove himself. If he is good, the program will thrive. Kids talk. They know a good thing when they experience it and they will sell it. If kids don't start to come- then there is a problem.
ReplyDeleteI see no where that it was stated that anyone was backing Cory or Dean. It was just stated to leave Cory out of this mess. He or none of the other staff members are at fault anymore than Alene was at fault when the problems started with Mrs. McCaig and she tried to do the best she could with the situation. They have to carry on with their jobs even if they are working under all of this stress. I'm sure they too are unhappy about staff cuts and are worried about their own positions as anyone would be who needs to work.
ReplyDeleteNot speculating on how the FBI operates, have been involved with some of their meetings. Some great service projects for the kids. But unhappy that the rumor was that some of time of the FBI meetings were used to do some campaingning to vote no for Alt C. This came from some parents. If it is true, that is not the proper place to discuss issues of that nature especially being one-sided as to vote no. But if you believe everything you hear then the FBI group was at fault no matter who is in charge! Or you can take it as people stirring up trouble, but who really knows the truth?!
I still see no facts on answers to who has better credentials, because again it is all he said/she said no facts to base anything on. I guess this could go on and on one opinion against another. I have to go on my faith, that I am attending church because I believe in God. I am not there because of a Deacon or another staff person , but because I want to worship God.
I do not like all the church closings and the staff cuts and I do pray that God will lead us to make decisions that will benefit our entire parish.
Correct me if I am wrong but Saving Our Parish started in June to address some of the issues that were causing ASP to lose parishioners.
ReplyDeleteSince the introduction of SOP, the sale of IHM is nearing completion and in the last 10 days (?)the announcement of the plan to sell StV to be developed by Providence House and create the St Mary's campus came to light.
Reading through this (and other) posts can be confusing: is this a facilities issue, a personnel issue or a ministry issue?
The immediate concern is to make sure AS/AO is not enacted too hastily: People aren't going to St. Joseph's for the spacious pews and the air conditioning.
I would like to say after being at one of the meetings, we need to direct our attention to the process being used and the misinformation being given us at the meetings. The figures presented and the decisions made for a particular church just do not compute for anyone with a business sense. So how did it get to this? I did not get any satisfaction seeking answers from "hearsay" among the participants and from a facilitator who has not been part of the three group involved in the planning. I would think if planning is being done for closures more than facilities would be considered. Nothing was said about the pros and cons of paarticular spaces for worship except for seating and even that is questionable why it must be at St. Mary's. We need to call Parish Council President or a member of the facilities committee if we want answers.
ReplyDeleteAt the risk of stating the obvious, the lightning rod here is Dean. 'Dean, Dean, Dean. Dean has to go.' But can we agree that it is VERY unlikely that Dean will resign or be recalled? If that is so, and you know that better than I, wouldn't it then be productive to re-channel our passion for change into a new discussion on the issues often stated within this blog...communication, consultation, input, accountability, and transparency (insert others.) You've told me that you've been trying to have that discussion, without satisfaction. But isn't this blog creating a new dynamic where trying again would make sense? My thought is, let's try again. Regardless of the merits of offense taken regarding Dean, his status is a non-starter. Continuing to make it a condition for conversation will prohibit any fresh dialog. And before you jump on me as a leadership apologist, let me restate - I am, like many of you, for the reconciliation of this parish. I am taking Father Fred's counsel not to take sides, instead, to pray for guidance to think fairly, to communicate clearly and to work through this mess together. Your thoughts?
ReplyDeleteCan we leave Marie (Mrs. McCaig) out of this? I find it to be counterproductive to keep bringing up the past. What's done is done. We all know what a loss there is- continuing to talk about it isn't going to bring her back. This conversation is serving to open up wounds that we all are trying to heal. Let her and Mike enjoy their time with the FBI or wherever they decide to go. They deserve this much respect from all of us.
ReplyDeleteTo amonymous 3:29pm- My son attended every single FBI meeting last year. I just asked him if the local politics (Alt. C) was ever a topic of discussion at the FBI meetings. He looked at me like I had 2 heads and said (Quote): "No. Never. Why would we talk about THAT?" This is coming from the horses mouth- take it for what it is. I agree- leave the McCaigs alone.
ReplyDeleteBill,
ReplyDeleteGlad that you are able to follow the advice of someone that has been here a month. No offense to the good father.
Giving Deacon Dean numerous more chances, and expecting a different result, might work for you. It does nott work for the oppressed here.
For someone who say he has not taken sides but is encouraging others to give up on keeping our churches and hope of a better leader, sounds liek you have taken sides.
Any other words of encouragement?
Someone made a good point above, that once leaders are put in a position of authority their actions go virtually unchecked. People are responding with all sincerity trying to be lights in the darkness and "Save Our Parish".( In reference to "anonymous" above who does not accept these efforts as such). There is no justification for Deacon Dean to have a "It will be done my way" and again... "It will blow over and those who don't like it can leave attitude". Even if he and those backing him get their way, how could they ever have inner peace knowing God sees the lack of care and concern they hold in their hearts for their parishioners. How do you preach about love, humility of heart, humble servitude and so on if for instance "washing of feet" is just symbolic and not something you apply to yourself. It is through love of neighbor that all of us have true contrition of sin and humility of heart. We should not be looking at one another like we are better than thou. For instance assuming someone is not serving the church in important ways - See comment "Get involved in our church". No one is without error. It is about moving closer to God and not away from God, often this happens even to a greater extent when we are broken, frail, and wounded. It just depends on how we respond to God's grace.
ReplyDeleteBill- We have been dealing with Dean for 4 years. I know of at least 50, probably more, people who have met with him to share concerns. I can think of NOT SINGLE ONE, myself included, who made any progress or who felt like they were heard or who felt better after their conversation. Don't get me wrong, he can be very pleasant but he doesn't take what people are sharing and factor it into his decision making process. He has a mental block when it comes to opinions that differ from his own. This many people can't be wrong- he has a problem that affects his ability to lead. Hence, the situation we find ourselves in.
ReplyDeleteTo whoever said that the FBI meetings were used as an Alt C opposition forum. My 2 sons were at the meetings and both were strongly in support of Alt c. If this was ever a topic at a meeting, believe me, they would have told me. Find something else to critique.
ReplyDeleteBetter yet, find someONE else to critique. Mike and Marie have given their hearts and souls to this faith community. It is laughable that someone would attempt to discredit either of them. Pretty low.
ReplyDeleteIf Time Warner announced it was taking away the Yankees games, Monday bight football, HGTV, your favorite movie channel, the Wednesday night tv lineup or the nightly news you love,or whatever it is you watch, you would come unglued and the protest would be gigantic among the masses. If Aniellos stopped selling pizza, the Nasser ice rink were to close,the Pioneers left town or the Jackels moved to Binghamton, their would be an outrage. On the other hand, churches are sold without input of those who attend and support and we are supposed to rollover and get on with it. Seems like a double standard here as to just where the importance lies.
ReplyDeleteNo one was critiquing the FBI or the people that run it especially the McCaigs, I was under the imopression that the group was started by a group of parents. It was clearly stated that rumor has is it that some time was given to campaign against Alt C. The point made was that even in the best of programs rumors can be started, unfortunatly this happens often and can hurt a lot of people. Lets leave the FBI and the youth group out of the discussions about the facilities plan and how the information was put out to us. or how bad our current leadership is. That also means not giving opinions of what is wrong with our church group or the youth minister, again so much of what is written is what someone heard someone say, nothing based on facts. I think the youth minister and the FBI core parents both want what's best for the kids.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I want to say how enjoyable it is to be with people who write so well. Your collective expression is quite amazing. My Dad was a journalist at the Leader as we grew up, so I recognize the power of words to inform, influence, and move.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous August 25, 2010 5:13 PM has requested more encouragement. OK then. As the new guy on the block I am learning from each of you. As I do I have remained fixed that reconciliation, as Christ would have us do, should be our aim. The fruits of that reconciliation? Peace. Unity. Time, talent, treasure. A vibrant Catholic parish, healed of its wounds, secure in its direction. I do believe this is not only possible, but imperative. Given our dire situation, it can't wait. A friend in the parish says we are in a 'perfect storm' of reality, circumstance and injury. In such a storm as this no wonder it is difficult to find our way back to each other. Reconciliation is the way. I believe it can be done and that we need to do it for each other and for the one body of the parish.
Again to August 25, 2010 5:13 PM. Father Fred may have been here only a short time, but it didn't take him long to feel our pain. His call was to our heats, encouraging us to be our most Christ-like. So yes, I did listen to him.
You also said that I was 'encouraging others to give up on keeping our churches.' I never said anything about that. I don't feel that way. My good name is on this post, so please get it right.
Bill
PS
Saint Gemma. Powerful. Yes, let's move closer to God. And I think we are at that broken and wounded point where it can happen to a greater extent. Therein lies my hope that our parish can heal itself, that it will reconcile. Thank you for what you said.
Bill, there is no reconciling to sin and oppression. Oppression can be an earthly form of peace, probably not the kind of peace that Jesus would desire. There is no peace without justice. When you speak of reconciliation you are speaking of reconciling with the idea that we are going to sell two more churches and probably close a school. The leadership said it is all a done deal. You yourself said that we need to leave behind the idea that we can have a change in leadership, right?
ReplyDeleteA friend called last night to tell me about the comments on the FBI. My 2 high school children and 1 middle school attended last year after we tried the Life Teen at IHM. For a while we did both but then decided that they were getting more out of the FBI. Mostly it is meaningful service projects but on some nights they had serious discussions on faith issues. They also pray every night and made rosaries to send to homeless teens. So, it is Catholic. There are many parents involved and they are always inviting more to get involved. Sometimes I would just stay for the hour and I was always invited to help with something. The kids love it and they bring their friends. My only critique is that they don't do more over the summer when the kids are bored and looking for something to do. Please don't be critical about something if you have no real knowledge. Over 130 teens are attending, they are doing something right.
ReplyDeleteI have learned much wisdom through the Twelve Step Program.
ReplyDelete1. If someone tells you that you have a tale, you may think about turning around to look. If two people tell you that you have a tail, you should think about turning around to take a look. If three or more people tell you that you have a tail, you had better turn around to take a look because you probably have one.
2. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
Parishioners have been telling our leadership that they have a tail.
Leadership has been trying to tell us and show us over and over again what is the best way for us to live our Catholic Faith without getting the results they desire.
What do you think?
TO: Anonymous August 26, 2010 8:34 AM
ReplyDeleteI'm off to the VA for a medical appointment but let me just say clearly. Reconciling is not surrendering. Quite the opposite. I think the parish is potentially in a very strong position. And for one, I am not reconciled that we will lose St. Vincent's. I think that should be a much broader conversation. I'll respond more later.
Yours in Christ. B.
After reading all the comments above a lot of them dealing with two different groups that are available for our youth. Wouldn't it be wonderful if these groups would work together for our teens. What a powerful message the Corning Painted Post Roman Catholic Community could send out to the rest of our community. A group of teens and parents working together as a service oriented and Catholic faith based group to better our community. The kids would not have to make choices in a critical time in life when so many choices have to be made. They would be united together as one group working for the same cause with the same fundamental backgrounds as their Catholic faith. They wouldn't have to decide which group to attend because of which one their friends might attend.
ReplyDeleteThe united front would show the rest of the community that in a time of struggle in the Catholic church and in our own parish that our teens have a strong and active group both of adults and kids! As we have seen in our school community sometimes the kids are more willing to accept changes and work together than the adults .
To Anonymous Aug.25, 1:01pm The only reason there continues to be an issue with credentials and degrees is because in Dean's new youth ministry job description, the one he provided to Marie, it stated that a 4-year theology degree was required. Marie did not have this but Kimberly did. But Kimberly has left and now we have hired someone with no degree. If you are questioning how I know this, as this information has been intentionally withheld, I saw his credentials when he was interviewed by the Youth Council. Personally, I don't care if the youth minister has a degree. Having the ability to establish and maintain a trusted realtionship far outweighs a degree. The problem parents are having is in the double standard that Dean has presented and how he violates his own criteria for his benefit. Enough said.
ReplyDeleteLove the 12 step analogy posted above. Would add that we haven't reached this point overnight. There is a 4 year history of questionable moves based on a questionable agenda. Most in the parish truly have tried to cut Dean some slack, work with him, provide honest input, forgive him for his shortcomings (as we all have these) and on and on. But he is not learning. By refusing to respect the history and traditions of this community, he is further alienating himself. I used to feel sorry for him-not anymore. A bit of humbleness and humility would be my recommendation.
ReplyDeleteTo amonymous 11:17- The All saints group and the FBI group did collaborate this past year. With the Stations on Good Friday, the FBI retreat and something else, I can't remember. Kids don't have to chose between the two. I'm sure they are welcomed at both groups. I don't understand how this is a problem for some of the adults. The kids that do both, enjoy both. Having different options to grow in your faith is a positive thing.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of the two groups working together once in a while and am happy to see that they did some events together last year. Maybe the kids that are doing both groups could help to get other kids to do both groups and then they would all be together more often. As soemone stated above, the kids will go where they feel comfortable. Both groups should meet this need. I don't have children involved any more but I was always happy when mine wanted to join any club that gave them opportunities to be involved in a Christian environment. Sounds like both of these groups should be promoted as such.
ReplyDeleteLet FBI continue to serve the parish in the way for which the McCaig's are so ardently respected. But carve out a practical and contributive piece for the parish's new youth minister. Do not expect him to develop the kind of robust service that has been the history of the youth ministry. That heritage belongs to the McCaig's. Give our youth minister the best chance to succeed within that piece that is carved out.
ReplyDeleteThis may sound foolish but as an older?? parishioner what is FBI teen group
ReplyDeleteA group of parents started a new service group last year. Faith by Interaction. They do a ton of service projects for the entire community. Many of their regular meetings are held at Green Meadows where they visit and entertain the residents. The high schools accept the service hours for required courses. My kids LOVE it. The projects target important needs and the parents involved make it fun for the kids to work. They had a retreat last year and the kids worked on Market steet and Salvation army and Habitat and at homes of seniors. It's a great idea and the kids are encouraged to bring their friends. It doesn't matter what religion they are but they do stress the Catholic faith.
ReplyDeleteGlad we cleared this up. Personally, I think it's fine that the teens can chose between the options. It's too bad that the All Saints parishioners will soon be without a choice. Or a voice.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous of 4:27 PM said..."It's too bad that the All Saints parishioners will soon be without a choice. Or a voice."
ReplyDeleteI guess I don't understand how we will be w/o a voice or choice. Could you explain that further?
I look forward to your response.
Mary,
ReplyDeleteNo choice- one Church.
No voice- did anybody ask us?
DO NOT GIVE UP!!!!! WE MUST UNITE!!!!
ReplyDeleteRemember to Pray !!!!
ReplyDeleteThank you for clarifying, Anonymous. I agree with the "no voice" part but I guess I thought you were talking about Parish Youth Ministry. Regardless of the number of churches, we only have one program and I believe it will remain. I have never gone to our Life Teen but am familiar with the program. While it has many good parts to it, as someone who used to work in YM, I always steered away from programs that you had to have a "membership" in (i.e. pay a yearly fee, get special training) Life Teen does require and extensive involvement from parents and young adults which is hard when you are new to a parish. We should pray for our YM program.
ReplyDelete