tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post5636389399903160016..comments2023-03-22T10:27:58.478-04:00Comments on Saving Our Parish: Meeting Open Thread and Power Point PresentationUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger134125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-37310397246999394722010-09-26T21:25:48.452-04:002010-09-26T21:25:48.452-04:00Ugh I am tired of this ridiculous rumors that the ...Ugh I am tired of this ridiculous rumors that the Condons attend services at Victory Highway. If you go to the 9:30/11:30/6:00 masses you see the family is always doing something musically related at mass. Or don't you people go enough of our masses to recognize them?? I don't know how these wacky rumors start. <br /><br />Anon 8:50 AM--where are you getting these "facts" from?? And by the way, the church owns the rectory, so it will be around for many years after the Condons leave. So I would imagine that repairs/improvements would benefit any use that building becomes, whether it becomes parish offices, meeting spaces, priest housing, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-48729918989889994902010-09-26T20:27:41.518-04:002010-09-26T20:27:41.518-04:00Is it true that the Condons worship and attend ser...Is it true that the Condons worship and attend services at Victory Highway? If this is true, somehow this gives a strong feeling that his own family isn't supporting the church and/or the leadership.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-69767860090342910032010-09-26T12:51:24.327-04:002010-09-26T12:51:24.327-04:00There have been ample opportunities to say "I...There have been ample opportunities to say "I was/am wrong" but arrogance wins over in this struggle. People in positions of authority who are craving attention need to stay in the spotlight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-17150400732975472572010-09-25T18:13:23.924-04:002010-09-25T18:13:23.924-04:00To Beth September 23, 2010 4:27 AM ,
I am saying ...To Beth September 23, 2010 4:27 AM ,<br /><br />I am saying we need to stop wielding our lack of trust like a club which we are using to beat the administration into submission. Quite honestly, I believe the continued reference to a lack of trust and the calling out of Dean directly will only make it harder for us to reach our goals. More importantly than that it detracts from our message of wanting parish unity and healing.<br /><br />What I was not saying was that we just wake up tomorrow and "magically" have trust. You are correct, there will have to be a process where we learn to trust one another. The skepticism we bring to the table will help us to seek out the details and fundamental logic behind various decisions and not just be a proverbial "yes" man.<br /><br />Of course we cannot be the only ones trying to rebuild the required trust. We have and will extended our hand out to the administration in an effort to begin the healing process and rebuilding of trust. We look forward to working with them to resolve the issues faced by our Parish. But we cannot do it alone, we need reciprocation by the administration and the help of all the Parishioners.Juan C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-35091447378244477812010-09-25T08:50:02.298-04:002010-09-25T08:50:02.298-04:00The Southside rectory/home. This is where you will...The Southside rectory/home. This is where you will find a prime example of self indulgence on the part of current leadership. Fact: $20,000 was spent PRIOR to the Condons moving in. ie. New toilets, window dressings, carpet cleaning etc. After moving in, many weeks of labor dollars spent on painting the entire inside to the liking of Condon. Not to mention paint and supplies. Complete makeover of the kitchen including brand new appliances washer/dryer etc. Painting of the garage floor!!? 12 air conditioners. Thousand dollar patio. <br />Question: Why do our maintainence people need to vaccum Condons house weekly? (they really do!) Who approves all of this?<br /><br />A $56,000 a year salary (approx.) Living rent and utility free. (you do the math) I also believe there is a cost of living stipend in there too.<br /><br />Might I suggest an unannounced walk thru inspection of OUR building. While there, be sure to visit the attic. It's a fire tragedy waiting to happen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-56945410593971212412010-09-23T13:01:57.569-04:002010-09-23T13:01:57.569-04:00Auburn is a very conservative, traditional parish....Auburn is a very conservative, traditional parish. Need I say more? Much credit to the late Father Shammon.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-71551369773739242472010-09-23T12:47:41.395-04:002010-09-23T12:47:41.395-04:00Just crunching numbers for the heck of it- the tot...Just crunching numbers for the heck of it- the total population for above is 82,000. Divide this by the number of churches covering this population, 17, and you come up with an average population of 4,823 PER ONE CHURCH. With our population of 11,000, sustaining 2 Churches should not be an issue. The fact that it is an issue, is the issue.Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-56739234385768700382010-09-23T12:34:34.823-04:002010-09-23T12:34:34.823-04:00FWIW:
Auburn - population ~28,000 - 7 churches
Elm...FWIW:<br />Auburn - population ~28,000 - 7 churches<br />Elmira - population ~39,000 - 6 churches<br />Elmira Heights - population ~4,000 - 1 church<br />Corning - population ~11,000 - 3 churches<br /><br />Demographically, not accounting for population density, we should look at Auburn and see what we can model on and borrow from them.<br /><br />Obviously this is back of the envelope, as the number of churches and the population of, say, Rochester is hard to make a direct correlatation between poplation and churches serving that population. I am sure the population density of the ABC Parish would also be skewed as the populations and square mileage of the parish being served by those churches is interesting. Although you could segment the population of the specific townships and the local church serving that township.<br /><br />Question - could Corning support 2 parishes?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-52070974577359900882010-09-23T11:45:16.218-04:002010-09-23T11:45:16.218-04:00Not sure what your point is- mine is that they hav...Not sure what your point is- mine is that they have been able to keep 7 Churches open in spite of the difficult times you refer to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-42394306096220071792010-09-23T09:24:24.590-04:002010-09-23T09:24:24.590-04:00Keep in mind that there are only 1-2 masses a most...Keep in mind that there are only 1-2 masses a most of the Elmira churches (I think there are 3 for one of them), and they are very much smaller than our two large catholic churches. They are having financial difficulties just like us, thats why they've consolidated into two parishes. Two sustain their buildings on smaller congregations is difficult (though, mostly depending on which one we're talking about, for some are much more expensive to upkeep than others), thats why I would not be surprised if within the next few years they need to shed 2-3 churches. Elmira is a funny example for churches--I think it is the town with the greatest number of churches in our diocese (check the DOR website), The churches were probably built in the industry boom with many catholic immigrants many years ago and they needed to accommodate. Times have changed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-34486657866510913352010-09-23T07:38:57.180-04:002010-09-23T07:38:57.180-04:00There are 7, yes seven, Catholic Churches in Elmir...There are 7, yes seven, Catholic Churches in Elmira/ Elmira Heights. We are being told that there is only a need for only 1 in Corning. Somebody please explain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-46123836725215200732010-09-23T04:27:04.321-04:002010-09-23T04:27:04.321-04:00Juan; I don't disagree with you but would like...Juan; I don't disagree with you but would like you to explain how to "lay down our lack of trust" in leadership? In my experience, trust is earned not freely given. In light of all that has transpired in the past 4 years, do you really think it is possible or even prudent to trust leadership? To me, this is like asking a spouse to trust her husband who continues to cheat on her. How foolish would that be. There will be no trust until we are confident that there is a change of heart, a change of direction and a change in philosophy. I do think you have a great plan and a great spirit but worry that it is not practical. First, we have to know that leadership (Deacon Dean) assumes some responsibility for the state of the parish. Secondly, he needs to assure us that he will work with us IN ALL MATTERS toward healing. Do you think this is possible? I hope so.Bethnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-89961875463986591472010-09-22T23:37:53.738-04:002010-09-22T23:37:53.738-04:00"We criticize all day long, but offer no alte..."We criticize all day long, but offer no alternative solution. "<br /><br />This is, in my opinion, the most profound statement in this thread. People keep focusing on a building, or past staff members, Dean, lack of communication and the list goes on and on. We can continue to dance around the these points forever, but we will never move forward and begin the healing process until we stop complaining and start offering solutions. The meeting held by SOP on September 12th was an attempt to begin the healing process by looking for solutions to our litany of (real and/or perceived) problems. This is where we need to focus our energy and Prayers...how do we solve our problems.<br /><br />I must ask, what are we trying to achieve? I think the universal answer is to Save Our Parish, to enhance our faith community, and restore the financial health of ASP in the process. If buildings must be sold to accomplish this...then so be it. If staff must be reduced (16 seems rather large for a Parish our size)...again so be it. But all those steps are just band-aids on the wound. They do not address the fundamental problem, which as I read it is a lack of open communication channels between the Parishioners and the administration which has resulted in a lack of trust.<br /><br />What we (Parishioners and STAFF) need to be analyzing is how do we restore that trust? How can each and every individual in the Parish work together to accomplish this? We can continue to point fingers at Deacon Dean (and I only mention him because he has already been mentioned so often), but that fails to solve our problems. We need to lay down our anger, lack of trust, and fear and decide that we are all going to work together to SAVE OUR PARISH!<br /><br />I revert back to the opening quote: "We criticize all day long, but offer no alternative solution" and this is will be our downfall. But based on the number of comments and the strong feelings conveyed in those comments I do not believe anyone wants or is willing to accept failure. We all have our own vision of what ASP should be and I would lay odds that (regardless of the number of buildings, etc) the vision is of a family united in our love of Christ, united in our believe in the principles of our Catholic faith.<br /><br />People it is time to start moving towards that vision. It is time we stop complaining and being part of the problem. It is time we start working together to solve the problems faced by our Parish so that 10, 15, or 20 years from now we can look back on this time and say WE AS A COMMUNITY CAME TOGETHER & SAVED ALL SAINTS PARISH!Juan Cnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-9087414512027658802010-09-22T17:10:11.076-04:002010-09-22T17:10:11.076-04:00I'm not sure how anybody could argue about thi...I'm not sure how anybody could argue about this one- of course it matters who is leading! Isn't that why we are where we are today? I don't care if it is RCIA, Welcome Home, youth ministry, Bible school, Bible study, Healing mass, whatever,people come if they feel comfortable and connect with the person in charge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-33315031625269926982010-09-22T13:16:03.639-04:002010-09-22T13:16:03.639-04:0011:33am- No need to be so defensive. I didn't ...11:33am- No need to be so defensive. I didn't make any comments on the capabilities of anyone on staff. I merely stated that the people who run the programs (past and present) have a direct influence on the number who participate. Simple truth.Mary L.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-88962151997746534972010-09-22T11:33:58.220-04:002010-09-22T11:33:58.220-04:00We keep bringing up the old staff members. They...We keep bringing up the old staff members. They're not coming back, so lets stop continuously whining about it. It gets nothing done and doesn't make people feel any better. How long must we stay stuck in the past? Mary L. --Are you saying that people like Cory, Mary Ann, Trish and Fr. Lew will not be able to fill their shoes? You haven't even given them a chance yet. <br /><br />People will eventually get tired of always complaining about something that can't be changed. To everyone who comments on this blog, you had better change your way of attracting new supporters with positive energy, than with negative energy. Negative energy can only last so long and it is not a healthy thing to focus on continuously.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-14726030682680488342010-09-22T09:55:14.931-04:002010-09-22T09:55:14.931-04:00Participation, or rather lack of, is a direct refl...Participation, or rather lack of, is a direct reflection of leadership. Always.Annnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-61073546560278213672010-09-22T07:38:35.222-04:002010-09-22T07:38:35.222-04:008:23pm stated: Well here's something we all ne...8:23pm stated: Well here's something we all need to consider, gang--the quality of these programs are largely dependent not on the staff member running it, but our duty as parishoners to support it.<br /><br />Heres's something YOU need to consider: the quality of these programs is DIRECTLY dependant on the staff member running it! Look no further than Alene Goodman and Marie McCaig. Hello? You discredit all that they did with your statement. They were blessed with the charisma to attract both the young and the old to their programs.Mary L.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-90116832813299960532010-09-21T21:46:42.135-04:002010-09-21T21:46:42.135-04:00Ann- You are right. I remember when the rectory wa...Ann- You are right. I remember when the rectory was renovated. First I heard at a cost of $20,000, then I heard $30,000 and then $40,000. Maybe it was more or maybe less but every person that puts even a dollar in the collection basket has a right to know what was done and how much it cost. When information like this is withheld, it feels like something secretive is going on, when maybe this is not the case. You shouldn't have to sit on the finance council to know details about parish finances. Whether the money is going into the Priest's rectory or the Deacon's rectory, let's open the books.Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-79728503276656850152010-09-21T21:46:32.458-04:002010-09-21T21:46:32.458-04:00To anonymous 8:23 p.m., thanks for your comments. ...To anonymous 8:23 p.m., thanks for your comments. I think many of the rumors about spending and financials in the Parish would clear up if there was transparency. If parishioners knew where the money was going it would help with the trust factor and would dispel a lot of rumors. Again, this is something that does not seem to be getting through to leadership -- open the windows and doors and let the sun shine in. Open. The. Doors.<br /><br />Continuing to berate parishioners for withdrawing from active participation is also another tactic that has proven ineffective. Parishioners did not leave on a lark. There are serious issues here, and they must be addressed with humility. Leadership will never get anywhere by continuing to avoid its share of responsibility for the state of affairs. Don't you think so?<br /><br />Regarding the youth ministry, I think Cory is somewhat disadvantaged because of the recent history with the youth group. He and the youth ministry and kids certainly deserve our prayers, as does the FBI group and ministry leaders.<br /><br />You say, "...the quality of these [parish] programs are largely dependent not on the staff member running it, but our duty as parishioners to support it."<br /><br />Hmmmm. That's a little simplistic. Sometimes programs don't work and aren't supported because they don't meet the needs, are outdated, or some other such reason.<br /><br />Someone once posted here that the parish was reaching out with the coffee and donuts program again, but that just as in the past, it wasn't working. We tried a coffee and donuts chat forum on the website. Poorly attended. Wasn't working. Poof, it was gone.<br /><br />Regarding the comment that parishioners should be 'making disciples of all nations' -- you are right! And I hope and pray that the staff is taking that same responsibility to heart and working to turn around the exodus of parishioners that has happened over the last few years.Gretchenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16468550732181534405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-79130544370294416902010-09-21T21:13:35.383-04:002010-09-21T21:13:35.383-04:00Don't know how many air conditoners there are ...Don't know how many air conditoners there are or how many drums were purchased but I guess that's the point. Do we ever know what the parish purchases? I have noticed in the ABC bulletin that if something is purchased, even something like new carpet, this information is in the bulletin. It feels like we argue about who has purchased what and how much money may have been spent but the fact is nobody knows because this information is never shared. My suggestion would be to have a spot in the bulletin for parish purchases. It doesn't have to include essentials like toilet paper or pens and pencils but purchases that exceed a certain amount. If there was more transparency, there would be less accusation and speculation.Annnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-11347218857258001982010-09-21T21:03:21.367-04:002010-09-21T21:03:21.367-04:00Seeings you are in tight with the leadership, get ...Seeings you are in tight with the leadership, get the leadership to post the financials on the blog, line item by line item, every detail and then see if you can continue to stick up for our great leadership. Bet it will never happen!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-12319479309914940502010-09-21T20:23:28.605-04:002010-09-21T20:23:28.605-04:00To Carol 1) Just because you "sense" som...To Carol 1) Just because you "sense" something doesn't mean its a reality. What do you want the Deacon to do to make it seem like "he feels the depth of sadness"? In our Oprah culture we seem to want our leaders to get up and be all emotional in front of us. He's just being professional--(2) The above claim that there was "thousands of dollars into the new teen mass program" is ridiculous. As someone who knows the many in the music ministry I can tell you that no new equipment was purchased for that, and much of the equipment is actually donated and personally owned by the musicians themselves, NOT by the church. The same goes for that at our other worship sites. And as for new cameras for the TV mass, what is the problem with that? Do our homebound parishoners not deserve to see the TV mass in good quality? They are many sponsers (such as Bright Ideas and the funeral home) who take care of the funding for such things. And I also find the comments about the rectory distasteful--what would you suggest they do as an alternative? (3) By the programs I assume you mean the youth program, yes? Well here's something we all need to consider, gang--the quality of these programs are largely dependent not on the staff member running it, but our duty as parishoners to support it. If we refuse to take part in family faith formation, participate in RCIA, send our kids to youth group, volunteer on the various committees in the parish, and encourage others to do the same, we are stunting the growth of the churches' programs and not building up the Kingdom of God. We are a burden to the church and not a blessing. Jesus did not say to evangelize "only when we feel like it and agree with everything our local parish does"...but to make disciples of all nations at all times. Just something to consider......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-23924413976680640082010-09-21T17:26:02.067-04:002010-09-21T17:26:02.067-04:00To above- You make good points and I say yes, I di...To above- You make good points and I say yes, I did read, I did listen. We all knew there wasn't enough money but yet we all saw how money was being spent. To echo above- new camera's for masses, more stuff for the musicians, more money put into the rectory, air conditioning units in most windows at the rectory, thousands of dollars into the new teen mass program...just to name a few. We heard leadership talking the talk but didn't see him walking the walk. Have i answered your question?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5611021065448394321.post-85589609141308048342010-09-21T16:51:19.597-04:002010-09-21T16:51:19.597-04:00Well written Anonymous 1:38pm. Is someone going t...Well written Anonymous 1:38pm. Is someone going to answer this?<br /><br />One other comment, every year the Deacon or Father or someone from Finance comes to the parish to talk about tithing. Do you think they were doing that for the fun of it? Also every year in the bulletin the finance committee puts the year end financial statement, have we ever really read this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com